the publics opinion of what good mileage is
 

I was talking to someone the other day about the new yaris, and they said "someone's full of it, a normal car can't get 40mpg" by normal, I think they ment, no hybrids, no diesels, I of course told them that there are "normal" cars, like mine that I drove there, that get much better then 40mpg, and that there are those of us who, to put $30 of gas in a vehicle, would need a gas can in the trunk.
so why is it that 40mpg is thought of as being an unrealisicly high gas mileage for "normal" cars to get? and that 30mpg is "great milge" I've called about crx's for sale that the people said they got "great mileage" and when I asked for numbers one guy even said "25-30" I was shocked, and had to ask if it ran well enough that I would be able to drive it home with that kind of poor mileage, and he was extreamly confused.

maybe it's no wonder that people don't demand better mileage, they don't know what the options are.

I got the same thing with my
 

I got the same thing with my CRX, she was all, it's great, and I was like, rly, so she says, 32 mpg, so I'm all, *tear*, but then again, she drove it at 85mph for 150 miles a day, :p

Some people are surpised
 

Some people are surpised that I get 32mpg. My uncle just got an 93 audi
90 (it is rated at 16/25 and he thinks that is good).

We have Detroit telling them
 

We have Detroit telling them an 18 mile per gallon Chevrolet Suburban is 'fuel efficient', so it's little wonder...

haha yeah some people are
 

haha yeah some people are just happy with what they got.

For the majority, they still wouldn't sacraface a few luxury features for FE its not that important to people yet...

Great mileage for me would
 

Great mileage for me would be 20 city 25 mpg highway. I drive a full size pickup for the legroom and because I go camping off road.

20/25 is realistic in a full size pickup. For example, Navistar & Ford just kissed and made up over their disatrous Powerstroke 6.0 diesel. They now offer a 200 HP 4.5 diesel V6 in Ford's new commercial LCF van.

Ford could put this motor in an F250 pickup and get 20/25. With a tonneau, manual tranny and the right gearing, I'll bet you could hypermile it to 30 mpg highway.

Likewise, GM could put the Isuzu 5.2 L4 its pickups, and Dodge could use a 3.9 L Cummins four. It makes me grit my teeth.

When I get 50 mpg from my
 

When I get 50 mpg from my Civic I'll consider that really good mileage for a 1.5L IC engine.

I asked a guy about his
 

I asked a guy about his Saturn's mileage one time and he responded with, "500 km per tank."

...???...???...

I had nothing to say to that.

It is strange though that most people consider 30 mpg really good. I consider 35 mpg as okay, 40 mpg as good, 50 mpg as impressive, and anything over that as amazing up to "Wow!"

I'm happy with my mileage
 

typically I can get around 35mpg, which I think is relatively good at this point in time. consistent 40mpg tanks should be on the way though. I would be extremely happy with a 50mpg tank from my 1.8L engine, but I think I would need to do some extensive modifications to get there.

Re: I'm happy with my mileage
 

I'm also a member at 8thgencivic and there are members who make 40mpg tanks. If I'm not mistaken you have an auto. At 2500rpm you're at 80mph. Some people would kill for that kind of rpm at that speed. I heard rumors that your car gets it's best mpg at 67mph, try that.

Re: I asked a guy about his
 

the majority unfortnately doesn't even know what MPG or LPK means... but when I say i'm reaching towards 1000 km a tank in the city, then i get heads going "BULL****"


good enough for me

50 mpg overall would be good
 

50 mpg overall would be good mileage if you ask me. I'll never see that because a 1.9L motor is just too big to deliver that kind of economy around town.

GM should take their Ecotech motor and cut it in 1/2 for a 2 cyl, and mate it to a 6 spd manual and throw it in a Saturn ION, and call it an ION-Mpg or something like that, and advertise the heck out of it, selling it for the same price as the current 4 cyl model. you watch, they'll do it, but 5 yrs from now, just before we have another oil glut

Re: I asked a guy about his
 

:lol: hahahahahahaha :lol:

It is hard to find new cheap
 

It is hard to find new cheap 40mpg cars, not too many choices out there. I bought a 2002Saturn SL with 40mpg on the sticker for highway. I think it was the only 'domestic' car with that kind of mpg. Not too many choices under 12k. (mine was 11500, I got air option only).

If I tell people I get mid to high 40's on the highway, most don't believe it. It's all in how you drive it and a some other tips. My car has K&N air cleaner as only mod. I shift at 1300-1500rpm. Most people won't do that. But hey, I am cheap and do what works. I love to see driving in town people blowing past me while I'm shifting at 1300, then they slam on the brakes and wait at a light while I coast up behind them (long lights, I shut the motor off). Average people just don't care or know how to drive economically. I guess gas has been so cheap here (in peoples heads) that they never had to care.

I have a relative in the
 

I have a relative in the Cleveland area(wife's cousin) that drives an '02 Saturn SL. You don't have any cousins in Wakarusa, IN do you? :D Anyway, welcome to the board. We need all the Saturn guys we can get here. :-)

Chicken or egg? Most of the
 

Chicken or egg? Most of the public doesn't care enough about fuel economy or the environment to make lifestyle changes. The automakers just want to cash in on the prevailing demand. Consumers then buy what is available.

I guess what really gets me
 

I guess what really gets me is when the genral public thinks that 40mpg is an unrealistic mileage, if you tell them someone can get 50mpg they call you a lier, and 60mpg is something that no car will ever be able to get, after all they saw that "news" program where they prooved that even a hybrid can't get the mileage they clame.
One of the people I was talking to the other day said they are spending $40-50 every time they fill up, and a tank of gas doesn't last a week, and they were going to get a car like a Yaris, even tho they didn't think a "normal" car would ever be able to get 40mpg.
a year or so ago I went in for an alinement, and asked if they could run a diagnostic on my car because at the time I was only getting 38mpg, and that I thought it should be in the high 40's to low 50's and the mecanic looked at me like I was an idiot and said "you'll be lucky if you get in the low 40's, it'd be a waste of money to search for a problem", it's almost like the oil compenies don't want the car compenies to make a better car, because if there was one afordable car that got 60mpg, people might realize that they can demand something that gets better mileage, keep them in the dark and they keep quite and will buy their "fuel effcent suberben".

HA HA HA HA HA
 

HA HA HA HA HA I love this stuff - I guess we need more british people here that are used to the MiniCooper and Austin America that used to get some good mileage. I remember being on a trip to western PA with the car loaded up and getting about 600 miles on a tank of gas in the Geo and thinking it was almost midnight and I need to get some gas to keep driving all night. The last tank in the xB was over 400 miles and the gas light was not on yet - took 10.291 gallons to spill it on the ground . . . damit I wasted some! Maybe a catch cup under the filler that vents back to the tank or engine is needed for the overflow. Got some highway traveling coming up next Sunday will see on the Shell gas does.

Re: I'm happy with my mileage
 

I do have an auto. I used to cruise on the highway at around 60mph. That usually netted me around 36 with mixed city driving. Now I drive around 52mph (speed limit is 55mph) and with mixed city driving I'm getting around 38-39. I have yet to do just all highway at that speed, but I wouldn't be surprised to see somewhere around 41-42mpg. The engine turns over at about 1650-1700rpms, which is ridiculous compared to some other cars I've driven. Previously I drove an Isuzu Trooper two door (good luck finding one of those). The thing sucked on gas mileage. At highway speeds it would turn over at like 2800-3000 at 65mph. The only thing it was really good for was hauling stuff (sometimes ***), and doughnuts in the winter with a snow covered parking lot.

rpm
 

Yeah well my xB turns 3050 at 60 in 5th so I know what you are talking about.

Quote: Yeah well my xB turns
 

Why can't they make a manual with tall gearing anymore, *cry*

But it's okay, because I can rub my hf tranny in everyone's face, :p

I think some of the high rpm
 

I think some of the high rpm gearing may be the result of strict emissions testing...I don't know, I'm guessing. Possibly less carbon, hydrocarbons produced from the engine working harder? I've noticed that my wife's Stratus runs around 2,600 rpm at 65 mph and my old Spirit (auto) was only 2,100 in OD at the same speed.

I think it's just because
 

I think it's just because people want to floor it in 5th and go, :(.

From what I recall emissions are greater at higher rpms, but I forget for sure.

Well that's true (about
 

Well that's true (about flooring it in 5th)...

Emissions systems are so complex now though it's hard to say. Maybe the engine is producing more emissions, but maybe the system is burning off more or pouring more back into the combustion cycle?

My 85 CRX HF was at 1700 at
 

My 85 CRX HF was at 1700 at 55, and 2500 at 80. Those were the good old days. :(

Quote:My 85 CRX HF was at
 

When I swap in the hf tranny to my 91 std civic hatch (with SVOboy's help of course), i will have reached a decent baseline of I'm hoping 45mpg highway. With the 4spd std I get 40mpg highway. I will be running over 1000rpm less than what I am at now on the highway! I got coroplast, and want to do some aero, and add vx rims = good for 50mpg? I am with DaX on 50mpg...a good round number.

If you're at 40 and dropping
 

If you're at 40 and dropping 1k rpms, that's a lot more than a 5 mpg improvement for just highway driving, sheeshers.

Scratch that. I get 40mpg
 

Scratch that. I get 40mpg tanks not just highway. I want 50mpg tanks like DaX!

sheeshers, What kind of
 

sheeshers,

What kind of improvement, highway or overall, would you expect?

sheeshers.

10mpg, pretty please?
 

10mpg, pretty please?

Well, if you go from 3k to
 

Well, if you go from 3k to 2k, you'd be burning roughly 2/3s of what you were before simply in terms of revolutions. I wonder how that would affect load though.

Will someone answer this
 

Will someone answer this riddle? I know I can't.

Just do a consistent highway
 

Just do a consistent highway run now, then do one after the swap, and have a vacuum gauge hooked up during both, and you'll've figured out the riddle.

Ingenius!
 

Ingenius!

xB
 

SVOboy
They have to give the xB enough torque to get up hills in 5th and it redlines at 6500 so that gives about 120mph top speed. Max torque is 4200 puts it at about 80mph. Max torque usually means highest efficency. The automatic is geared taller btw.

Re: xB
 

they don't *have* to.

i don't care if my tallest gear can't get me up a hill - that's what the next lowest gear is for. the tallest gear should be for maximum efficiency under light loads.

i suspect it's marketing more than anything. a car that required downshifting at highway speeds in "normal" driving (for hills, or passing) would be ridiculed by driving "enthusiasts". the motoring press (which is generally biased towards speed & acceleration) wouldn't like it.

but i also know that my (our) views are not shared by the majority of the motoring public.

and automakers seem to feel that once we've reached top gear, our arms are now broken and we're incapable of shifting any more. please.

Quote:they don't *have* to
 

Well to make it more drivable they need to - the aero in this thing is not that of a small car and if you are driving alone then it goes ok but as soon as you add a couple of people and luggage then if 5th was any taller you would not be able to use it. Cars are designed to be able to make it up certain grades on highways and highways are designed with a certain maximum grade so that cars can make it up the hills without slowing down. Remember this is a van sized vehicle with a 1.5 liter engine. It does ok as it is and I would not want to have 5th any taller than it is or else I would be shifting more. Actually I am not sure that the whole 5th gear overdrive thing is a good idea when you think about it there is a little efficiency loss from that like in the Geo tranny. What happens is that the Geo is geared for about 135 top speed at redline if you crunch the numbers and you never get there. The xB on the other hand I have heard gets to redline in 5th at about 120mph - not sure if it was a turbo or not however. The automatics are geared a little taller and have trouble on highways on steeper grades - I hear they turn 2800 at 60-65mph. They also start playing with the valve timing under loads and I would rather have it operating at max efficency at a higher rpm instead of more power with higher losses when under a heavy load. Ocean Drive 11.9 miles last night at dusk with lights on 48.6mpg with a cold start.

Re: Quote:they don't *have* to
 

whereas i don't mind shifting more to get good mileage - including occasionally at highway speeds because of a taller top gear. if i didn't want to shift, i would have bought an automatic.

Re: Quote:My 85 CRX HF was at
 

Actually, I would recommend the 14" HX rims and the 165/65/14 Potenza RE 92's. You will end up with the same tire diameter and same unsprung weight but you will have the lowest rolling resistance tire available (that I know of). This special tire is OEM on the Insight. I have noticed 3+ MPG by swapping my 15" for this setup. Once the tires are broken in, thier performance is quite good, both on dry and wet pavement (not for the snow however). But since i drive conservatively, you should take that statement with a grain of salt. Oh, your mileage may vary. :)

Re: Quote:My 85 CRX HF was at
 

This is making me regret getting the 13" VX rims and selling my 14" HX rims.

Then again, from an economic standpoint I did end up saving money in the whole process, so I guess thats' worth something.

14s do look a little better than 13s though.

Maybe it won't matter when I put the pizza cutter hubcaps on these guys.