s test, i'm seriously thinking of upgrading to a more advanced ODB reader. the folks at insightcentral.net seem to like https://www.obd-2.com in addition to reading some data that the scangauge doesn't show (e.g. fuel trim), i like the idea of b
 

after today's test, i'm seriously thinking of upgrading to a more advanced ODB reader.

the folks at insightcentral.net seem to like https://www.obd-2.com

in addition to reading some data that the scangauge doesn't show (e.g. fuel trim), i like the idea of being able to actually log the data, rather than only view it instantaneously.

is anyone using such a beast already?

The idea of logging is
 

The idea of logging is really good, I think that would allow you to monitor cold start changes every morning, wouldn't it?

I would love to do this on
 

I would love to do this on my civic once the new engine is in. SVOBoy, assuming I have the right p07, how difficult is it to convert it to datalogging?

What info will I be missing going to obd1?

If you've got the write p07,
 

If you've got the write p07, pain in the *** is all I can say, ask me on AIM this weekend when I can do some serious research, the problem with the p07 rather than tuning a p28 is the code is a mystery.

I think a handheld PDA
 

I think a handheld PDA computer would be more suitable for logging.
I know computer programming and nowadays i was planning to buy an OBDII interface and obtain a PDA computer and log the cars datas every second. If i cant find an appropritae application for logging i am planning to write my own application for my needs.

Also here is a Turkish company in Istanbul, Turkey that produces ODBII interfaces: www.ozenelektronik.com
Their products the "Modbydic" chip is promising and i think they also provide a software for the chip but i dont know if it has logging features. By the way i guess they have a "ECU simulator" chip for development purposes also.. In 2 - 3 weeks time probably i will contact these guys.

Not real-time, but...
 

I bought the Davis brand "Car-Chip EX", which is essentially a flash-ROM chip that takes a snapshot of the car's pre-seslected parameters every 5-seconds (5 parameters max, with speed mandatory). I have to bring it back to my laptop to upload the data, but it's worked great so far. It can read trouble codes and reset the CEL, see intake air temps, fuel-trim, battery voltage, etc. It's around $150 and uses a USB-to-serial connection (provided) and a nifty program to store data and view trips in a graphical format. It also calculates average speed, max speed, and excessive G's.

An really inexpensive route is to get a an OBD interface that plugs directly into a laptop for real time info (kinda like scanguage). The programs that run this setup are out there as freeware. I'd like to do this for real-time fuel economy.

RH77

to capcom
 

Ever hear of AutoTap? This thing is on my wishlist for its datalogging and its realtime data modeling. Hook it up a color PDA and voila! Instant graphical or text gauges! Friggin amazing for $199.

Link to the PDA version

a palm pilot would be a cool
 

a palm pilot would be a cool to do this, but i don't have one.

i do however happen to have an old p120 laptop sitting around that will run the odb-2.com site's software, which seems very similar.

Re: If you've got the write p07,
 

LOL at least he's honest :P mat i know a little too and could help u on the windows messenger :D

Thing about the p07 is you
 

Thing about the p07 is you can get the right type that's chippable and all that, and the code is out there also, but no one really knows what the **** in the code actually means. It can be done/found out though, if you're serious, matt, I'm pretty confident I can the maps and possibly with some more learning and lots of searching things like enabled datalogging and all the neat stuff. I could also write a p07 editor in c++/java.

I have the AutoTap and I've
 

I have the AutoTap and I've used it extensively to diagnose problems with my car and also just to gather data under measured conditions to make accurate judgements about gas mileage using conventional motor oil and synthetic motor oil. Guess what? Under identical conditions, you get the same gas mileage with synthetic as you do with conventional motor oil.

I agree, the AutoTap is fantastic. You can log lots of different parameters and replay the data after a run. The logs are exportable to a spreadsheet-readable format also so you can chart and graph whatever you want however you want to make sense of the data. The more parameters you log, though, the lower the sampling rate becomes, so you have to choose wisely what you want to see if you want to gather the data frequently enough to capture the specific condition you need. The software that comes with it will allow you to replay a sample through the logs, graphs, and gauges that you set up yourself, so the display is fully customizable with all the data that's available to you. Pretty cool to tinker around with, and it can save you a bundle in diagnostic fees if you have problems with your OBD-II equipped vehicle, which is any vehicle 1996 or newer.

Re: I have the AutoTap and I've
 

care to share details of your methodology & results (maybe start a new thread)? i for one would find that very interesting.

Re: I have the AutoTap and I've
 

Ditto

Here you go.
 

oopsie, duplicate.

Here you go.
 

Good old college memories...

The gist of it is we duplicated as many factors as we could control, with environmental conditions being the most difficult and costly of those. Humidity, temperature, and even barometric pressure were duplicated as closely as possible. We changed the oil between Pennzoil 10W-30 and Redline 10W-30 in a Cadillac with a 4.6L V-8 engine. The mileage figures were so close as to be almost statistically insignificant. The Redline showed a mileage increase of 0.21% (22.059 MPG versus 22.105 MPG). Two of the runs were slight advantage to Redline and one was slight advantage to Pennzoil, so you can judge that for yourself. The advantage probably comes from the short duration that the synthetic oil is slightly less viscous than the conventional oil. There were factors we did not duplicate, such as cold weather and hot weather. We started at 75*F oil temperature and stopped after 20 minutes of varied and identical "driving" conditions on a dynamometer, 3 times with each oil. During the runs, the PCM stayed in "open loop" mode for almost the exact duration, within less than 10 seconds, fuel trim rates on the AutoTap log files showed almost identically, MAF rates showed almost identically, ignition advance showed almost identically, and coolant and oil temperatures rose almost identically. We used the AutoTap to graph that kind of information so we could better gauge the accuracy of our results. A special adaptation was made to the car's fuel rail by my nerdy friend Jason so we could insert flow rate meters on the delivery and return lines to accurately gauge fuel consumption. When we were done, that fuel rail was removed and discarded for safety reasons. The AutoTap was used in conjunction with the dyno logs and the flow rate meters and the oil temperature meters were handled by separate devices because that car didn't have an oil temperature sensor. A Fluke meter with a printer gave us the oil temperature information, and the flow meters were wired to some kind of device made by HP, but Jason the nerd took care of that part so I don't have any details on what it was or how it worked. All I know about it is that we paid a lot of money to use it.

We did a total of 8 oil changes on that car, and at 7.5 quarts for each change, we racked up a huge bill for Redline oil (almost $200).

Time for my vacation. There are some reefs (and other things) in Australia that I've been wanting to see. I'll be back in a few weeks. In the meantime, discuss amongst yourselves.

Re: Here you go.
 

Enjoy yourself!

nice summary - thanks for
 

nice summary - thanks for the reply.

Question - when I get my
 

Question - when I get my Hondata installed, do you think comparing the areas under the curve from the injector pulse width graphs would be a good measure of fuel consumption? This could be done in short or long things... A short thing would be tesing whether driving at WOT in 5th is better than light throttle [is reducing pumping losses outweighed by a larger injector pulsewidth?].

Things like this I really can't wait to test out.

i'm no expert, but it sounds
 

i'm no expert, but it sounds like a good method to me. if you can log injector pulses accurately, you're effectively logging fuel used, aren't you?

I suspect this is exactly
 

I suspect this is exactly how Scangauge works. Just because a car is OBD2 equipped doesn't mean it has flow meters on the fuel rail. I don't see how else you'd know fuel consumption other than injector pulses. Being that a typical injector pulse is on the order of a couple milliseconds, a PIC microcontroller with a 4MHz clock is capable of executing 1,000 instruction every millisecond, so you can effectively measure each pulse +/-0.001 ms, in other words, very accurately.

If anyone has any experience
 

If anyone has any experience with mass airflow meters disco recommended using that and afrs to figure it out, also. Just something to throw out there.

you're right, flatland - the
 

you're right, flatland - the scangauge doesn't measure actual flow, it's a calculation based on pulse width, air flow, displacement and other factors. that said, it's been pretty darn accurate for me (within 2% of "manual" calculations on the gas receipt at fill-up time).

Re: Question - when I get my
 

I think Hondas since the beginning of time are open-loop at full-throttle. I'd like to know this too as I drive my TL with the auto-stick, get into 4th as soon as I can, and mash the gas.

RH77

FYI... been watching eBay
 

FYI... been watching eBay for about 3 weeks now for a used laptop-connectable OBD2 unit for proper data-logging ability.

kicked myself on friday because i missed out on a real deal: it went for $50 - and the only reason i missed it is because of a web/browser glitch at the crucial bidding moment (15 sec before the auction ended).

i don't really want 2 separate units. the scangauge is so convenient since it's self-contained, no muss, no fuss. i think i posted this elsewhere here, but i did write to the company to see if they would ever consider adding a USB/serial output, and they basically said no.

how hard would it be to add one? opinions of any electronics experts??

Quote:how hard would it be
 

Depends on the internal structure of the thing. OBD0 and OBD1 honda ecus it's as simple to do as adding a 25 dollar cable from radioshack because it's already set up with communications ports.

Prolly *** hard on the scanguage I'd guess though.

Re: Quote:how hard would it be
 

Wait, I thought you said it has to be chipped first to send the data? Which is it? Can I just hook up the cable to my obd1 ECU and get data from there?

It does have to be chipped
 

It does have to be chipped to send data, I was just museing on the fact that the communication port architecture, or lack thereof, is probably the biggest hassle when doing this.

The ecus have the communications port so it is just a matter of plugging in, whereas metro might have to create one (if that's possible) to even be able to access data.

I think it's time to post
 

I think it's time to post pictures of PCB's!!!!!

you want to see the innards
 

you want to see the innards of the scangauge?

NM...for some reason I
 

NM...for some reason I thought your ECU was OBD-1...then I wanted to see a shot of its innards.

hm i carry a table pc to
 

hm i carry a table pc to school everytime. I think this is my cheap solution to finally see my mpg although what should I look for :S? Do I have to get a program for windows too? Damn I bet that costs money too! What I have to program it? I'll think i'll wait till the scangauge goes on sale or I find one on ebay at a steal...

I got my Scangage last night
 

Installed it in a flash. It took a while to figure out the setup, but once I got it going, it was amazing. Real time feedback of fuel economy has already showed me where best to conserve. Amazing box!