Its Lonely at the Top
 

:) I was suprised to see that I had moved up to the top spot for the Motorcycles % over EPA top 10 list. Now that I'm retired I have been riding my motorcycle more often and recently rebuilt my carburetors after 26 years of happy ownership. My last tankfill was near my allbest best at 59.55 mpg. I started doing a little EOC but mostly I just watch my speed, shift at lower RPMs, avoid stops and idling, and bump up the tire pressure to 40 psi.
I'm intrigued by streamlined fairings like the Criag Vetter project and may play around with fabbing something up.
For now I'm shooting for some 60 mpg tanks with minimal mods and good technique.
Ride safe, L&S

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Good job, that's impressive. You're lucky that you're retired so you have time to tinker and experiment. Good luck with the project!

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I tried EOC on my bike once, even going down a mountain it lost speed, so I gave up trying EOC.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

In the Alps they accelerate like crazy :D

Really, I had to use some form of braking (trying to use forced DFCO lately) to moderate speed before sharp turns... it's easy to exceed 50mph just by gravity.

My last "photojourney":

https://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...t=33432&page=2

(Other than that, on normal hills and at highway speeds they really lose speed. I EOC when the decline is long enough - half a mile fits the bill - and/or I can live with the lower speed)

Congratulations anyway, low&slow, we have the 3rd and the 5th (Ciliegia is ridden by my girlfriend now) in absolute mpg and they're in the top10 on the front page :)
It's hard to say anything about their position by "According to EPA" because they don't have EPA figures :( I could get some factory numbers for Teresa (they're the constant 90 and 120km/h figures), but found nothing for Ciliegia. And this is the problem with many other MCs too. You're lucky to have those numbers.

(On a sidenote, I'm happy to see another fairly long motorcycle FE log, they often get abandoned too soon :()

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I was riding in the Blue Ridge mountains and the Shenandoah valley in Virginia. There's some really long, steep runs. My cars & trucks are usually doing 80 MPH at the bottom if I don't hit the brakes, or let them DFCO. The bike with the engine off and clutch pulled in settled in at about 45 MPH. I started the engine back up after about 1/2 mile because I didn't want to be run over by a car going a minimum of 60 MPH. My safety was worth more than the gas I was saving. I don't understand what was holding me back, unless it was the wind drag on my 6"4" 225lb body. Maybe a small low profile windshield might clean up my aero profile?

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Dunno - most of the 'braking' is done by aero drag, that's sure. Cars are heavier and have better drag coefficient at the same time. A well shaped windshield should help, they say. I happen to have one on Teresa, but I never tried to ride without it. What I tried is to change its angle to make it 'larger' - and it just made aero profile a bit worse (may be because of the huge gap caused by the extra adjuster brackets). Which is not clean to begin with, my head is well over the protected zone. I think it would be bad to remove it - my body shape must be worse than a bullet-like windshield.

Do you have long, straight, steep declines that would let you roll at 80mph without leaving the road then? I'm a bit envious :D I'd happily try what speed I'd get on them!

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Yeah, the road I was on does not have sharp turns. I can let the truck DFCO in overdrive, and still be going in excess of 70 MPH when I hit the bottom. Of course, the speed limit is 55 MPH though. A friend of mine has one of the old, really aero shaped Ford Tauruses (1998), and his car will DFCO in overdrive, and be doing nearly 90 MPH at the bottom.

At the bottom of the mountain it opens up to a perfectly straight and nearly flat 4 lane road for about a mile and a half through the valley before you start going up the next mountain.

EDIT: I just realized Ford probably does not sell the Taurus in your country. This is what my friend's 98 Taurus looks like.

https://images.dealerrevs.com/pictures/12373613.jpg

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

You might be able to test this by leaning down low...that's how the Wright brothers found that they could ride bicycles faster...

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I thought of that, but it was not comfortable to lean low on a cruiser with forward controls.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Hi All,
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.
DRW, where are you at in the Bay Area?
Alvaro, Kudos to you for your fine efforts and great information. I always enjoy reading your posts.
Jay, Welcome to the exciting ( and sometimes dangerous) 2 wheel world. When I EOC , I kill the ignition , pull in the clutch and then shift through the gears down to neutral. It sounds like you may have some clutch drag or else a lot of aero drag. Also checking your wheel bearings. A tall windscreen may help. I only have a handlebar fairing on my Vision but it helps .
Best wishes L&S

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I think there is some clutch drag because the bike will roll forward a couple of inches when I start it if its not in Neutral. I'm not ready to run it all the way down to Neutral, as I feel that's really advanced. If I noticed a car coming up on me quickly I'd have to start the engine, and cycle it up to at least 5th gear to move out of the way. I figured if it was in 6th gear with the clutch pulled in all I had to do was start the engine and release the clutch.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I live in the south bay and commute to Union City. Only 45 miles roundtrip now. My previous commute was 75 miles per day, which encouraged hypermiling more.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Hey, don't motorcycles have wet clutches? That would certainly produce a significant amount of clutch drag.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I don't know about all of them, but my bike has a wet clutch.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Ours too.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Can you feel any extra drag when you downshift into lower gears while coasting at high speeds? I'm wondering if putting the trans in second gear at 60mph would spin the gears fast enough to cause noticeable drag?

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Don't know. I'll have to try it next time I'm out there. There aren't really any good sized hills near home, I either have to get on I-95, or go out towards the mountains. Either of which is almost an hour away. Georgetown Pike has some good hills on it, but its a 2 lane road with no shoulder, seems too dangerous for me to try on that road.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

As long as the clutch is pulled in on my Ninja 250, you can be in any gear at any speed and there's no noticeable drag. The only exception is when you try starting the bike in gear; it'll pull forward a little and struggle to start vs. starting it in neutral.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Mine doesn't struggle, but if I start in 1st gear it does pull forward a few inches.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Mine.... pulls me up a light incline together with the whole bike :D Large singles need strong starters :D Anyway, when the engine is running I don't notice the drag anymore (it should increase the idle rpms while coasting with the engine on, shouldn't it?).

But today I tried to shift back to 2nd while FASed to see if it affects her gliding ability, but I'm not sure if I felt anything. I shut down the engine at my usual, approximate transition points and got approximately the same length of glides, about 3 times out of 4. The 4th glide got shorter/slower than usual, but it could be the wind as well.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Hi, I just got back from an overnight ride up in the NorCal gold country. There were lots of awesome twisty back roads and I met up with 2 other Yamaha Vision owners. We had a great time and I also had a new PR with a tankfill of 66.8 mpg during the outing. I was very suprised as I was riding pretty hard and not trying to do much for fuel efficiency.
I gootta get to work now that Cat has bumped me off the top spot!
L&S

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I don't believe EPA in ratings...

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Especially since the EPA doesn't rate motorcycles. Some people use made up numbers, I used Harley's published MPG that they use in their sales literature for my model (*under ideal laboratory conditions). I'll probably never beat those numbers on a regular basis.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

This is exactly what I thought about Teresa's 'constant 90km/h' number, which is 3l/100km (78mpgUS). After learning from hypermiling sites I found it's not that hard :)

But not in pouring rain, crossing the country via freeways, 2-up, with luggage... This Sunday I got almost the same as L&S got, but that 64mpgUS is my absolute worst tank this year. I'm disappointed but not surprised, I couldn't do too much about it (I went pretty slowly already, and it's not fun to P&G even slower when your boots are full of water) :(

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I have beat the numbers, but only by driving back roads at 45 MPH in 6th gear. I don't think there is any way I can beat the "highway" rating of 50 MPG traveling at highway speeds. Harley accounts for a 180lb rider. I'm 225 lb and over 6 feet tall. I create a lot of wind resistance.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Well, I'm 5'9" and ~146lbs.

But the difference between riding alone or 2-up is like 10%.
The difference when I'm riding by myself with the topcase attached and packed is practically not measureable.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I still have zero idea how to get my ninja 250 up any higher. In fact, recently as I've progressed as a "sport rider" following a friend on his SV650 in the twisties, I've been beating the bike harder and harder. I couldn't hardly believe my last tank was 50mpg until I thought hard about how I've been using the bike.

New tires are coming soon and I'll be more comfortable next year in raising the psi and corning faster.

Also, I'll hopefully be riding my 2nd bike for the "fun stuff" and keep the Ninja for cruising or commuting.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Are you serious?

It's not that difficult on a 250 Ninja, mine never got less than 60 mpg, even with clogged carbs.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I got my "EPA" rating from a website that listed tested fuel economy for motorcycles. It seemed in line with MC magazine road tests for my bike ( high 30's to low 40's mpg).

Project 84, try keeping your RPMs down and shift up to the tallest gear that your Ninja can handle. Throttle control is critical, if you roll off too quickly its like applying the brakes. Check your Ninja to make sure you don't have excessive brake drag, good wheel bearings, correct chain adjustment. Also it may be due for a tune-up and carb cleaning.
Stay safe, L&S

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

From what I heard, an O-ring chain will consume a little power as well.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Kudos to Daniel Maia, the new king of the hill !!!! 161 mpg
all the best L&S

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

The place where he is now is lonely indeed - I can't even dream of getting close to his results...

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I hope those results continue. His gaslog shows just one entry. It'll be a long wait to see what he gets on the next fillup since he covered over 600 miles on the first tank.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

I'd be interested to know how often his vehicle travels above 40 mph or 64 km/h.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Rarely, and not for long periods, I think.

(And I'd like to see a more detailed log too!)

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Cat and Alvaro make good points, it would be good to know how relevant the speeds Daniel M travels at. If it can't keep with traffic and is too slow, its kind of a useless execise, like the 10000 mpg experiment that don't go over 15 mph and can't carrry anything.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Everything depends on the environment, sometimes you don't even have to keep up with the traffic, because that's almost non-existent :D On winter mornings I could easily do 50-60km/h (31-37mph) along the road 811 (in Hungary), because at 6am the best unit to measure following distance was km. And I had to go that slow because it was already cold enough on the bike without going faster :D

Anyway, if I remember well, he always mentioned city riding, and not of the fast kind.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

last time he posted was 7/13. i hope i'm wrong but i think he just came here to post his amazing results then moved on.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

Daniel M posted a few a times after he first joined, I didn't realize he only had one tankfill . Too bad, I guess he's just drop off the list due to inactivity. This is why I have great respect for veteran hypermilers (like Cat, Alvaro, Basjoos, PalePal and other frequent posters ) that list every tankfill in their garage so that you can see their progress, consistency, and info on what happened that tankfill.

Re: Its Lonely at the Top
 

He should drop off the list once he's gone 90 days without a fillup.