Lead on the o2 sensor is one thing, but lead in solder to solder the wires are two totally different things. Lead solder used to make two wires stick will not affect the characteristics of the electrical signal to the ECU.

In reference to your comment about your mechanic... Yeah, take info from both source (we are your source as well as your mechanic) and decide what to do with it. We're happy to help :).

About your O2 sensor, I wish you had it so you can give it to me. That would have been worth something to me.

Gary

Very weird. I have an ebay bought L2H2 [with the blue wire] in my 92 VX and before I changed it out I was throwing a code [47 or 48 I think] but afterwards no code. Yes, the bloody CEL bulb works and I guess the sensor does too. 'Splain that to me.

Are you looking for a bad L1H1? I still have the one I pulled off my VX.

Indeed... it would have been worth something to me too!

dogncatboy: my mileage doesn't seem to be much affected. I actually did experience ever so slight of a hesitation when going from neutral to 4th gear driving home just now, which leads me to believe the o2 sensor is doing its job, or at least something. The mechanic said it's doing something, but whether it's on the too lean or too rich side of things is unknown. In other words, putting a disconnected o2 sensor in the place of the current one would not be the same since this one is doing something. He said that might have potential problems for my engine, including "fouling the spark plugs."

I'm still waiting to hear from TomO or other VX owners as to whether some hesitation is normal operating characteristic of the 5 wire o2 sensor and/or the healthy/normal characteristic of the lean burn, or how much hesitation or engine stumble is normal. I know I've read articles about a stumble being normal for lean burn, but no one has actually imparted their experience of their lean burn or o2 sensor functioning.

A CEL that comes on intermittently is NOT normal.

It means, in this case, your VX's emission system is not as clean as it could/should be and might not pass the smog test of certain US states. The primary reason for the code 48 is the VX is running either too lean or too rich and this pollutes. The LAF sensor's function is to keep the engine in the sweet spot - excellent mpg - low pollution. Your new, properly functioning LAF sensor may actually be telling you that you've got other problems to solve that are unrelated to the sensor itself - lol!

You're right - it might mean squat having this little yellow light adding to the ambience of your instrument panel. But I just hate CEL's. They are telling you that "your car is now officially a P.O.S." !!!

Yeah, I agree. Very frustrating that my old o2 sensor was essentially destroyed. My car passed emissions with that o2 sensor. I got a reply back from Global-Automotive. Looks to be totally nonsensical reply, but I will await judgment from other VX owners!

Dear global-automotive,

My o2 sensor I bought from you is throwing code 48 (LAF: Lean Air Fuel Sensor) I am requesting a replacement part that will work! Please contact me about exchanging my o2 sensor for a working 5 wire L1H1 o2 sensor. Thanks,
Jason

Global-Automotive's reply:
Dear Valued Customer,

That is the problem. The item we sell is an "OXYGEN SENSOR", not an "AIR FUEL RATIO" sensor. These two parts look the same, but are very different. The two cannot be interchanged.

Looks like you purchased the wrong part or your trying to install on a position that is incorrect.

We suggest to all customers that they use a certified mechanic to install all parts. This is what they went to school for.

Thanks,
Management

Tell them they're full of **** and file a complaint. Link the auction?

BTW, not my quote...

jadziasman - I agree, cel is not "normal".

Gary

Did you buy it with a credit card? Dispute the charge. That will get their attention.

They have the thing listed as working for a 92-95 non-california civic vx...I would dispute and file a claim...bs company.

Thanks Bobski. I was having a hard time finding the relevant page. Well, the CEL doesn't come on when I do the 1500rpm test in 3rd gear.

I have been driving less efficiently this tank, yet I first went below 1/2 tank at 270 miles compared to last tank at 275. Anyway, seems the next step I need to do is lots of testing via this manual. But I can't say I feel too comfortable doing it. Not sure I want to ask my mechanic as I think he is not interested in humoring me as it were. I still haven't installed my ECU. Never got a chance today. But doesn't seem like it's too hard. Maybe tomorrow I get to it! Then at least the ECU will have been reset.

They're totally wrong about the LAF and o2 sensor being "different parts" right? The o2 sensor is the LAF, correct? There is no o2 sensor and LAF in my car, right?

Here's the auction link SVOboy:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB....cWON.m313.lVI

Here is what I have written in the reply (I haven't sent the reply yet.)

I had the mechanic install the part for me. I purchased a 5 wire o2 sensor designed for the 1992-1995 Honda Civic VX with lean burn VTEC-E D15Z1 non-California motor, which is what my car is. I watched the mechanic install it.

Should I add that the car does not have a separate LAF sensor and that the code is referring to my o2 sensor?

Yeah, I did. I mean, I purchased with a credit card. I haven't disputed the charge. I want to keep nice with these guys and not resort to those tactics until necessary.

Just say that you bought it for a 92-95 D15z1 non-california civic. Don't mention anything about lean or LAF since they are obviously fools or liars. Mention they have a 1 year warranty on defective parts. Also mention that this was the only change made...

Right. The LAF is an oxygen sensor with a linear response curve. Typical 4-and-less wire O2 sensors are collectively known as lambda sensors. They have an essentially flat response curve until you reach 14.7:1, where it makes a very steep transition from 0 to 1 volts. Both sensor types depend on oxygen content in the exhaust to generate a signal... They're oxygen sensors.
Newer ('96+) Civics have a second oxygen sensor on the downstream side of the catalytic converter. In the case of the '96-00 Civic HX, it may use both an LAF and a lambda oxygen sensor... Your VX should have only an LAF.

I have little doubt that many of the people that buy these fake sensors have problems and try to return them. The company's well aware of these problems, possibly before they started selling the products, and are just trying to BS you out of your money. Welcome to ebay.

Uh, I don't think they get it. Tell them the VX uses an L1H1 oxygen sensor and that their ad or auction was for an oxygen sensor for that car. It does not work. And tell them you had a mechanic do it so they can't get ya on that.

Gary

Also, don't use LAF, just talk "oxygen sensor". It will confuse them. When you say "LAF" they think you're using it as part of an aftermarket AF device.
Gary

They won't refund you as per their store policy, only give replacements.

I found this: https://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/B...anyID=11008472

How about this:

I had the mechanic install the part for me. I purchased a 5 wire o2 sensor designed for the 1992-1995 Honda Civic VX non-California motor, which is what my car is. I watched the mechanic install it. This was the only change made to the car. I couldn't have purchased the wrong part because in your product description it says 1993 Honda Civic VX non-California. The VX doesn't have two places to install an LAF or an o2 sensor for a possible muddling up of parts, so the part had to have been installed in the right place! There is only one place to install it! Certainly you did not sell me a LAF advertised as an o2 sensor? Unless you can help me get it working in my car, I must demand a WORKING replacement, or if you cannot provide such, then a full refund. I am happy to try and get the part working in my car. I don't want to deal with refunds or returns if I don't have to. The CEL (code 48) does not come on when the engine is warmed up and when I do the third gear 1500RPM test. It only comes on when the engine is not hot.

----------

Maybe asking them to help me get it working is not such a good idea, but what about the rest of the email?

Fixed it.

hah, wow. I should remember that resource before I buy from a company in the future!

Yeah, I think yours is a bit better. Straightforward and clear. Thanks!

I would cut out the last two sentences. They're not going to know what significance the LAF road test has, or likely even what CEL code 48 means. What it does tell them is that you're at least in some degree taking an active role in repairing your car, which gives them an excuse to blow you off. For the sake of smoothing out the refund/return/exchange process, it's in your best interest to look like a clueless consumer. If they deliberately try to deceive you, go ahead and tell them they're full of it, but otherwise try to look like joe clueless.

Or the fixed version works too. :)

Alright, thanks guys. I would prefer to get it working than return it for a different part. I haven't given up hope on that. But I think I will have to do what the manual says in troubleshooting it. Maybe Wombosi can help me with it this weekend. He is a bit more mechanically inclined than I am, although we are both pretty much electronically-phobic. Good night! If you have anything else to add, I will read it in the morning. ;) cheers.

Phuck Global Automotive...i Bought My O2 Sensor From Them And The Same **** Happend...they Were Tough To Deal With...i Finally Said Ok, You Want To Play Hard Ball Im Calling Visa And Canceling Payment And Wala They Were Willing To Refund The Cash After A Call From Visa :-)

You Should Have Listened To Me...you Would Have Saved Yourself Some Trouble....

Goodluck...

Too Bad Your Dufus Mechanic Cut Your O2 Sensor...

AThis treaf is on fire! :eek:

What kind of symptoms were you getting with your o2 sensor? Was the CEL coming on all the time, even when hot? You mentioned the car was erratic. In what way? Any specifics you can impart would be appreciated as I'd like to see if my car is doing anything yours was.

I really have the impression that my car more or less is using my o2 sensor correctly. My idle now bounces when the lights are on (it didn't use to) the idle is still high, but it was high before I put the o2 sensor in--and there is probably another cause for the high idle. (Like adjusting that screw for instance.) Other than that the car is running smooth (maybe due to open loop, but the CEL did not come on during the 1500RPM 3rd gear test) and my fuel economy has not dropped--if anything it has improved, but it is too early to tell, but certainly there is no indication of a drastic drop which, if I understand correctly, would be an indication of my o2 sensor being in open loop mode or whatever.

Anyway, if you can give detailed account of how your car behaved before and after you put the o2 sensor in Colin, I would much appreciate it.

Cheers,
Jacinto

WARNING RANT enclosed in this post...
 

I personally think this thread is getting crazy.

[RANT]I personally dislike the mechanic that you bring your VX to Jacinto, but that is only because he sounds like one of those mechanics that think they know everything and nobody else does. How did he learn what he knows???? Did it come to him in a dream? Or did he learn it by asking questions and proposing theories and testing them? The guy needs to open his mind a bit and take things with a grain of salt IMO.

I am actually an ASE certified technician that has worked for a couple of performance shops over the last 7 years as well as hands on experience with most makes and models of cars since 1994. The reason I don't do this as a regular career anymore is because blue collar, manual labor is not what I want to spend my life doing. I enjoy having an office space and working on Network equipment and computers.

The comment that you made, Jacinto, about the info from this forum not fixing your problem is a little rude. I know that you didn't mean it to sound rude and were just using it to point out that the mechanics have fixed most of the problems on your car so far. What peeves me about that comment though, is that you need to take ALL sources of information, think about their outcomes and then make a decision based on what you come up with, or can afford. I know that you say that you aren't mechanically inclined. Mechanical inclining's can be a natural trait AND a learned trait. I suggest a cheap and easy way to learn this trait is to start off assembling car models. it's cheap and easy. If you do well with that, then you can move up to a remote controlled car assembly. This will give you a immense feeling of self esteem and understanding of how things work with eachother. The high idle issue can be caused by many things, we all gave you ideas on what we thought it was from personal experience....that list was :

• Check for vacuum leaks
• Replace Vacuum hoses anyway (since they are over 10 years old)
• Idle adjust screw tweaked
• Check the timing (distributor and cam/timing belt)

That was a suggestion of where to start looking for the cause of the problem. That doesn't necessarily mean that will solve it. There are always unknown factors that come into play. So, in the future, use the information you receive as a starting point, not an end-all bible for a fix. There are too many variables in cars to have one end all fix for a problem.[/RANT]

Ok, now that the rant is out of the way...

Jacinto, you are a resourceful person for having found the site and I have confidence in you that you can become mechanically inclined enough to start working on your own car. Don't let the brake replacement deter you.

As far as the hesitation/stumble that is normally inherent to the VX....

As is my personal experience: when at operating temps, my VX does have a slight decrease in power as it enters Lean Burn. It also has a slight stumble when coasting down to sub 30MPH speeds (as in slowing for a red light) and then pressing on the accelerator to get back up to highway speed without coming to a stop.


I've kind of lost track of my train of though as I have just returned from lunch. you're all probably sick of my long response so far anyways, so I'll stop for now. :thumbup: :D


Edit: I know that the ECU knows the time it should take for the O2 to warm up. It sounds like this new O2 is taking too long to warm up and that might be the cause of it throwing the code. This is further backed up by the fact that you were able to run about at 1500RPM for a constant amount of time right away and not have the CEL come on. The exhaust heat was helping the O2 warm up within the alotted time before the ECU would throw the CEL light.

Here's a thought as far as the idle issue goes: The Fast Idle Thermo Valve could be loose. When I installed the D16Z6 ('92-95 Civic EX/Si motor) swap for my car, the plastic ring in the valve was loose, causing a high, bouncing idle. The same thing happened to a friend's 'Z6 swap a few years earlier, but I hadn't read about the FITV problem... We replaced the throttle body which cured the problem. When I later read about the common FITV issue, I realized the symptoms matched perfectly and we only needed to replace the FITV on the bottom of the throttle body, not the whole thing.
Take off the big tube between the air filter housing and the throttle body. Look inside the throttle body. On the rear surface, you should see two holes, maybe 1/2" in diameter. Here's a pic of my 'Z6's TB... You can see the holes I'm talking about, and the FITV bolted to the bottom.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...16b4624675.jpg
The top hole feeds air to the Idle Air Control Valve (an ECU controlled valve) and maybe the idle set screw, the bottom one feeds the FITV. Start the car and let it idle. Cover the bottom hole with your thumb and see what happens to the idle. The engine will be pulling air through that hole, but it's not enough suction to hurt you... Just don't let it surprise you. The engine might stall, don't worry, you didn't hurt anything if it does.

I checked my HX's O2 sensor a while back and I definitely have an L1H1 with the red wire (not blue). Oh well...it runs fine and it stopped throwing the heater malfunction code...

From the two motors I have, I've never seen a FITV on a d15z1.

I shouldn't have made that comment as it was pretty blatantly rude, even if I intended it not to be. I apologize to Gary and whoever else I may have offended. I don't want to get into why I said it. Bottom line is I really like this resource and I appreciate everyone's comments. Edit: Okay, I guess I do want to go into it.

Basically I think my mechanic knows his stuff, but isn't as familiar with Hondas and Imports as he is with American cars (hence it taking him an hour to run the codes on m o2 sensor) He took about 20 minutes or more just locating the jumper thingy for testing the CEL codes. So my dilemma is, if I work on my car and mess something up, I can't take it to the mechanic without receiving a severe berating and possibly him not willing to do anymore work on my car and then I'm left trying to fix it myself which puts me in a very high stress position. I go to school 5 days a week -taking 5 courses and working part time on the side, and can't really afford to be spending hours learning how to work on my car. In an ideal situation, I'd find a mechanic who isn't so mentally imbalanced as you aptly described him TomO, and someone who is okay with me getting outside help and willing to do work on my car and undo any mistakes I make without making me feel like I'm the greatest ******* on the face of the earth. The reason I want to keep my mechanic despite all his outrageous shortcomings is because I think he charges fair prices, I think he's honest (I don't feel like I need to worry about him ripping me off) he seems to be genuinely concerned about doing things right, and a big one is because he takes the time to answer my questions, explain things to me and reason things through with me, even I don't always agree with his reasonings (such as his over generalizing broad comments about outside help).

The mechanic I was going to before seemed decent as well, but he is very busy all the time and isn't interested in answering my questions or concerns.

Jacinto - I'm not offended. I know you're just frustrated. Rightly so if this is your only car.

I know TomO has been very helpful. He's sent me schematics and info about the cal VX to 49-state swap and has given you some real good info. We need more people like Tom on this board so I can understand his feelings about this.

Like Tom and I both have mentioned previously, take the info you get from here and your mechanic and decide accordingly. I agree with Tom that your mechanic
thinks he knows it all. I'm not ASE certified, but I've rebuilt engines and
even repainted one of my cars. I've never done it before. The only
reason I was able to do it is because I asked alot of question and I
wasn't scared to take things apart. I got alot of info from people who
was like Tom on the autobody list and the supra list. All in all, everything
I did I personally think I did better than any mechanic. If
you look at my paint job on my Eclipse and my supra projects, I think you would agree.

Gary

EDIT: I just upload pictures of my eclipse in the garage section. Click on it and
let me know what you think...

My mechanic definitely thinks he knows everything, and he doesn't. And I agree the only way I am to have my car worked on to my satisfaction and standards is to do the work myself. Assuming I take the time to learn how to do it right.

Wow, paint job looks pretty pro.


TomO Based on your hypothesis, does that mean my o2 sensor is working properly once it is warmed up and the only thing wrong with it is that it's taking too long to warm up?

Anyway, my car is running much better now. No more stuttering and stumbling all over the place, got the tires nice and pumped up and its handling much better now (whereas before the car would groan going around a fast turn; now it takes the turns with much more ease) and I owe that to all the research from the friendly people on this forum. :)

listem to tomO. start off with models and work your way up to R/C cars etc.

your mechanic sounds like most of the mechcanics out there, not willing to be told anything from anyone else. And to ask, "why dont they do this for a living?" because most of us are smart enough to not have to do manual labor on cars for a living. I myself enjoy working on cars, but not enough to get paid little money for it, i chose mechanical engineering.

i agree with tom as well, you are smart enough to find this bored and ask questions, you should be smart enought to do any work on the VX.

The civic VX is one of the simplest cars around, and i truly feel bad for anyone that need to take these cars to mechanics and pay big $$ for easy work.

The manual is your friend. Drive your car, if you have a problem, consult the manual and this board, the service manual is very straight forward for the most part, and most people can handle the work if they take their time.

and the comment about the board not helping WAS disrespectful, even if it wasnt meant to be. Everyone here is pretty smart, espeacially when it comes to specifics about the VX, they take time to help people out for FREE, unlike your mechanic. the one advantage your mechanic has is that he has the car in front of him, usually a problem can arise from many areas, and if you post up a specific problem, you will get a slew of answers and like it was said before, it is up you to decipher and figure out what is actually going on.

I know sometimes things seem overwhelming and its easier to just take it to a mechanic, but im telling you, the VX is about as simple as you can get with a modern car, so use it to your advantage. I mean, these cars cost most of us 2-3k, why pay hundreds of dollars for things simple enough to do at home?