The engine's response to HHO injection

[Nightwish]

Hello all, I am new to this...BUT very excited about HHO...

First a little baout myself...

I am a 38 yr old published writer and am very interested in some of the great inventions and inventors...

I was in championship truck and tractor pulling for 10 yrs. I would like to think i know a lot about motors and have extensive experience with alcohol powered 600+ cu in mountain motors.

I believe in HHO technology but have been told by some that the process is impossible with an Alt like on a car. Here's what one of my friends said:

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Don, it in fact does cost more to produce than the energy you get from it. The stuff I found shows that if you do the electrical conversion to produced hydrogen btu's, then you wind up with about a 33% loss.

I also found that it takes about 50 kw-hr of electricity to produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen.

Now, Power = E x I

Using a 12 volt system, it would require 4167 amps of electricity to produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen in one hour. How many automobile electricial systems have you ever seen that can handle 4167 amps?

AND........

Nightwish, it takes 50kw of power for 1 hour to produce the hydrogen equivalent of 1 gallon of gas. That means that in a 12 volt system, the current would have to be 4167 amps. The amount of hydrogen released is directly proportial to the current. So, if you were running on, say, 20 amps in your car, you could produce enough hydrogen to equal the energy of 1/250 gallon of gas in one hour.

But, you have to remember, that your engine is now working harder to produce that 20 amps. You don't get amps from nowhere. And it actually takes more gasoline to produce that 20 amps for an hour than the 1/250th gallons of fuel you would save.

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OK, so can someone tell me about how this works...

How much water would a normal car use if its creating a fair abmount of Hydrogen?

How much current...Amps does it take to create this HHO gas and why does everyone say it defies physics?

How much would you have to put in the motor, to get near 40% more MPG? Would that take a BIG Alt,....and more AMPS?

Thanks in advance !!!!!!!

[wateronfire]

Hi, I thought I'd post a comment since I saw you're not yet a true believer!

In regards to this technology, it will most definitely create enough hydrogen to power a car although you'd need to produce about 300L per hour to run it successfully if my calculations are correct.

From a 12v battery running it in an 2005 Alfa Spider JTS we're producing approximately 30L per hour on a very tiny HHO generator and it's only drawing about 20-25 amps.

For a fact, it takes a car anywhere from 400-750 amps just to start a car and the alternator will definitely replace that 20-25 amps as you drive or if the car's sitting at idle which is probably less than a car stereo draws at high volume.

As I mentioned, this was from a very tiny generator that only holds approximately 200mL of water (though it has a reserve bottle that acts as a bubbler to stop flashback (which is always a danger when dealing with very light and highly flammable gases.

I have had this discussion about "it takes more to produce than it powers" argument with many "learned" people including chemistry majors and scientists and usually they're the hardest to convince simply because a book says so. Their argument is usually "it doesn't work because it's not what I learned in school!" and that's the whole grounding to it. I've also heard a saying "Contrary to popular belief" which I don't think there's many scientists with open enough minds to uphold.

Time for some new ideas in my opinion. I don't hold much stock in scientists "rock solid" theories, especially when they still haven't figured out how bees can fly yet with modern "laws" of physics. (Their wing span and the speed they buzz their wings shouldn't allow them to get off the ground) Go figure, huh? FACT: Bees can fly!

FACT 2: HHO does work and increases the burn rate of the existing fossil fuel, firstly cleaning the exhaust emissions and secondly allowing the car to burn less fuel simply by supplementing some of the fuel with hydrogen.

IMHO, it doesn't mean it's gospel simply because someone wrote it. I've read a lot of crap fiction books in my life and until fairly recently (in relative terms) the world was flat according to the majority of the world.

Browns gas (HHO), invented by a man who ended up settling in Australia named Yull Brown (I'm a proud Australian so I had to throw that in) discovered it approximately 80 years ago so it's not exactly new technology from the research I've done so far.

Anyway, my best results are approximately 60L per hour with the small generator simply by increasing the amperage.

With a sizable generator you could very easily create enough to power a car although you'd need to ceramic coat the internals of the engine to stop the vehicle from cooking itself, much like they do with the space shuttle hull.

Anyway, just thought I'd put in my 2c about it and don't think I'm having a go at you or your friend at all. This is just my opinion and you're very welcome to yours but don't listen to your mate! Keep on with the research and you'll find that it is true!

Cheers and have a good one!

Regards,


WaterOnFire

Originally Posted by Nightwish

Hello all, I am new to this...BUT very excited about HHO...

First a little baout myself...

I am a 38 yr old published writer and am very interested in some of the great inventions and inventors...

I was in championship truck and tractor pulling for 10 yrs. I would like to think i know a lot about motors and have extensive experience with alcohol powered 600+ cu in mountain motors.

I believe in HHO technology but have been told by some that the process is impossible with an Alt like on a car. Here's what one of my friends said:

----------------------------------------
Don, it in fact does cost more to produce than the energy you get from it. The stuff I found shows that if you do the electrical conversion to produced hydrogen btu's, then you wind up with about a 33% loss.

I also found that it takes about 50 kw-hr of electricity to produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen.

Now, Power = E x I

Using a 12 volt system, it would require 4167 amps of electricity to produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen in one hour. How many automobile electricial systems have you ever seen that can handle 4167 amps?

AND........

Nightwish, it takes 50kw of power for 1 hour to produce the hydrogen equivalent of 1 gallon of gas. That means that in a 12 volt system, the current would have to be 4167 amps. The amount of hydrogen released is directly proportial to the current. So, if you were running on, say, 20 amps in your car, you could produce enough hydrogen to equal the energy of 1/250 gallon of gas in one hour.

But, you have to remember, that your engine is now working harder to produce that 20 amps. You don't get amps from nowhere. And it actually takes more gasoline to produce that 20 amps for an hour than the 1/250th gallons of fuel you would save.

-------------------------------

OK, so can someone tell me about how this works...

How much water would a normal car use if its creating a fair abmount of Hydrogen?

How much current...Amps does it take to create this HHO gas and why does everyone say it defies physics?

How much would you have to put in the motor, to get near 40% more MPG? Would that take a BIG Alt,....and more AMPS?

Thanks in advance !!!!!!!