The engine's response to HHO injection

[flapdoodle]

My best was 30% increase in town, but I had to use an injection of methanol/water mix in addition to HHO. Every car will be different.

The biggest surprise was seeing the spark plugs get factory new looking in just a few minutes using HHO, and the cleaner exhaust.

You can see how things progressed here:
http://flapdoodledinghy.com/HHO_generator.html

[JanGeo]

If my engine burns 0.1gph then at 25% efficency of gasoline to electric energy would be 900 watt hours (9kwh/gallon) or 900 watts which is about 75 amps at 12 volts if the HHO production was 100% efficient to just get the engine to idle. It would be easier to spin the motor with an electric motor which I have that can handle about 150 amps at 12 volts. However the HHO will only be useful if it really makes the gasoline burn more efficiently.

You guys need to get a DC motor controller to operate the HHO generator so you can vary the voltage and thus the current to the generator to compensate for the temp and soda concentration variations as well as to regulate how much HHO you generate depending upon engine load.

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

[Rant]

All I really want to see is someone take a normal, average vehicle like a Taurus or an Accord and enter it into the garage. Get a couple of months worth of good gaslog data entered, do some simple mods like grille block, air dam extension, and learn to drive it right, then experiment with HHO so everyone here can truly see what's going on and how it relates to a normal vehicle.

The science debates are fun, but in the end nothing beats a true, long term test where the rubber meets the road. So far we've been bombarded with people telling us that they installed HHO on their vehicle, and then made a 20 mile highway trip where their mileage was increased by 20 - 30%, and then we never hear from them again. I guess the MIB and the black unmarked helicopters chased them down and made sure this information never got released to the public. As it is right now, truly working HHO systems are like Chupacabra, grey aliens, Bigfoot, Yeti, and Elvis sightings. (I wonder if Elvis is running HHO in his Cadillac?)

We need to cut through the rumor, fuzzy logic, and political agendas. Just show us a vehicle with a charted "before HHO mileage", then install HHO and show us what you get afterwards. Its just that simple. I am trying to keep an open mind about HHO, and if someone can show that it actually works then I'll start building one next week.

I'm sure that there are many others on this forum that feel the same way I do.

-Jay

[/Rant]

I like to nominate YOU as the person to do this. A lot of people are seeing results from HHO....maybe YOU will have to be the one to prove it to yourself and others like YOU?

Yea...some of the mpg testing is sort of flakey...but I believe the results are really there. But you must BELIEVE. Nothing wrong with faith-based science is there?

I used to be an UNBELIEVER until I saw my 7 to 10 % mpg gain from HHO. Now if I'd managed 20-30% or even 70-80%...I would have likely have disappeared too...I'd be out driving around!

Once you have that 40-50% gain...you are no longer a mere mortal...you are one with the gods?

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

I like to nominate YOU as the person to do this. A lot of people are seeing results from HHO....maybe YOU will have to be the one to prove it to yourself and others like YOU?

Yea...some of the mpg testing is sort of flakey...but I believe the results are really there. But you must BELIEVE. Nothing wrong with faith-based science is there?

I used to be an UNBELIEVER until I saw my 7 to 10 % mpg gain from HHO. Now if I'd managed 20-30% or even 70-80%...I would have likely have disappeared too...I'd be out driving around!

Once you have that 40-50% gain...you are no longer a mere mortal...you are one with the gods?

Yeah, I have thought of building one anyway... I'm just not interested in rewiring all of my engine sensors to run on high concentrations of HHO. I'd probably build a conservative setup that produced small amounts of HHO so hopefully I might get some benefit of HHO without messing with the computer. I suspect that these vehicles with hacked computer systems will probably get better mileage, even with the HHO generator disconnected because they are leaning out the engine.

-Jay

[rekline]

June 2008
workbench evolution...Bought e-bay abs plastic hho,used about $2.00 worth of the parts & built one using 1/2 gal. olive jar from wal-mart. Glass is fragile but dissapates heat much better/faster than any of the plastics. Electode mountings in conductive metal cap were challenge,o-rings w/thick hard rubber backup washers worked good. used several different catalysts in distilled water, baking soda caused quick red discoloring in electrolyte color[electrode breakdown?],gas production good using 6 setting battery charger on bench & clamp on amp. meter [15-20a]. used 4 different catalyst solutions, and chose potassium hydroxide as permanent electolyte mix,good gas production hardly any solution discoloration. The glass jar fit into an old empty go-jo plastic container,so trimmed down sides put so foam in the bottom & mounted next to wind shield washer res. on wifes vibe. Elect. hookup...+bat----25afuse holder----30a led on/off switch on dash----30a amp guage next to switch----then to the load contact side of 30a relay under hood mounted by fusebox----to gen + elctrode. control side of relay volts from engine running source[always]. After first exciting test drive went from 30mpg to 27mpg ,ouch [wife frowning]. Unit ran hot 18-22a because of heat buildup. Installed 1 1/2" flex hose from vent slots in front grille air dam up into eng. comp. running length of hho unit ,capped end of hose ,cut out a 6"long ,3/4" wide slot parralel w/hho so cooler outside air is blown around unit. went from 20a avg. to 12-13a. will be able to add P.H. to solution and make more gas w/cooler gen. operating temp. Tryed some engine tuning , 4.7k resist. in paralel w/iat sensor to give ecu higher than actual intake air temp. reading, 4.1k resist. in par. w/ ect sensor to give ecu hotter than actual coolant temp. reading. You pro's aren't gonna like this... wrapped elect. tape around maf sensor to give lower than actual airflow reading to ecu, had to trim tape a few times before engine would stay running.{have maf/o2 controller ordered} during test run after tuning car ran good with hho on, mpg now 23 :cry: Am hoping i can straighten this mess out w/ the map-02 controller. If this ends in a good way w/mpg gain,7'3 turbo diesel is next.
july 2008
Finding out that making the hho is the easy part, getting the sensors tuned,especially the afr sensor on this toyotized vibe, is not going to be easy. Most good stories you'll hear about hho gains will probably be pre "95" vehicles. There are some good stories with o-2 sensor equipted cars that use a small amount of voltage added to the return signal to the pcm. AFR's work on current, so its build it yourself control. I'm working on building current based controll for the afr signal to the pcm which at best will allow the air/fuel ratio to remain at idle setting. MAF control is good. If afr sensor control doesn't do it i'll be giving up on vibe. Will try on 7.3 psd. I'll keep this thread posted on hho progress, results.
rick

[mechanic999]

Hi, forks i am not regular here but i like HHO kit. I just add map enhance on my ford taurus 94. But autozone guy told me that this map sensor is something to check performance of egr valve. I do not see any deference on engine performance even i put on lean position on enhancer... Do i have to put enhancer on MAF sensor on this case? If someone knowlegble on this matter, let me know. I try to lean the fuel injection.

Also, other day i see on you tube that some japanese company make car run on 100% on water and hydrogen. They inject hydro first, then spark, then inject water, then vaporize water by heat created by combution on hydro..

I am interested in the process but i cannot put water in gas tank cos this beat up ford is only my ride.

Do any of you know that fuel line, pump, regurator take water? or do i need different set of pump, line, injector etc.

I have friend who own little junk yard so i try to get stuff done one way or other but i want to know whether anybody persuing this road.

THank you

[gingerbreadman]

Do you guys think it's worth it to purchase a kit for this sort of thing? I own a chevy blazer (S10 gen 2) and it get's horrible gas mileage. I was thinking of purchasing this HHO Injection kit : http://hho-injection.net/ but I didn't know if it was a scam or what?

[JohnNeiferd]

That's a scam. They charge you a lot of money just to tell you how to build it, they don't even build a unit for you. If your interested in experimenting with hydrogen generators, then I would suggest http://www.hhoforums.com/ . No scammers or anything there, just people genuinely interested in hydrogen generators. Lots of good information too, and you can easily build a hydrogen generator for under $30. Will it give you better fuel economy? I don't know, most people say no, but I can guarantee any self-built unit will produce more than a $100 unit purchased online.

[itjstagame]

I wish I had more freetime so I could experiment for you. Once I get my 2nd car then I'll work getting Megasquirt working on the truck. I know how far my best driving techniques can get me on that. I'm hoping with Megasquirt I can lean it out a bit and get much better control. By the time that's working and tuned with my little free time it'll probably be 6+ months.

Then maybe I can try the tried and true 7 cells in series for ~2v each using KOH. It sounds like if it works as described in enhancing the burn and based on the MIT study that being able to burn more complete and ability to lean further are the main helps. In my opinion the goal of a vehicle driveline should be HP on demand. That's why EVs are more efficient, at 50MPH you're using the exact 20HP you need to use, if you want to accelerate you give more power and now you're putting out 40HP. No waste. If using HHO I can lean to 25:1, or basically give half the gasoline and produce about half the power, then that's awesome for cruise and then I can inject extra gasoline for more power as need up to 12:1. Power on demand.

Of course the speed at which HHO burns is scary to me, not a good thing. Our engines are designed for slow burning fuel, we have a lot of advance ignition and compression and any lower octane fuel (or faster burning) will cause pinging.

About the compression engine, is there a worry of HHO compression igniting? That is will it ping just from heat and pressure even if I retard my ignition?

The other main thing I've been itching to try (which is much harder) is adding directly injected liquid water at or just after TDC of ignition. I've seen the Crower cycle and worry about a steam cycle on it's own, but if I can inject water just after flame is starting to propogate downward (so I won't extinguish it), I think steam explossion and lowering of temperature would help with efficiency and emissions.

[JanGeo]

I was talking to a guy yesterday about the whole HHO generator thing available at a web site and he kept saying this thing puts out hydrogen like crazy using pulsed high voltage 20,000 volts but it only uses 0.1 amps - he didn't realize that it was 2000 watts of power he was talking about - he just kept saying 0.1 amps is all it takes like it was a tiny amount of power and you can run your car on water using this HHO generator.