The engine's response to HHO injection

[hvyironfr8dog]

You will get that problem with low quality S/S like 304 wire.

I suggest you try 316L, 19 guage. Do not use 316i or 316t. They are not the same. Marine store should have it. Try Harbor Freight, or Defender.com or West Marine stores, or mcmaster.com.

I am working on a different model I saw in LA when I visit the HHO club out there, which does not use S/S wires. They get too hot and thus cause a lot of problems. It makes it difficult to control the temps diddling with differnet electrolyte solutions.

BTW, stick with Distilled water and Baking Soda. To mess with caustic chemicals, you are only asking for problems should your rig break, or worse, blow up in a flashback, etc. Its not worth losing your eyesight over. Distilled water and Baking Soda will do just fine.

Vary the amount of Baking Soda by 1/4 teaspoon to get the Amps you want. The design of your electrodes is the key from what I can see. Also, try multiple cells in series and parallel.

I am also assembling a S/S plate design, and a coiled wire design and want to test my 3 different designs to see which works best. Some people build some pretty elablorate designs. IMO, K.I.S.S. is the key or you will drive yourself nuts. I will let you how I make out or if my sanity goes first.

Just wish I could get a string of days off to assemble and install it as I can't afford to have something go wrong with only my one car to get back and forth to work. Good luck and keep posting.

[flapdoodle]

Originally Posted by hvyironfr8dog

BTW, stick with Distilled water and Baking Soda. To mess with caustic chemicals, you are only asking for problems should your rig break, or worse, blow up in a flashback, etc. Its not worth losing your eyesight over. Distilled water and Baking Soda will do just fine.

Don't fool yourself into thinking baking soda is safe. As soon as power is applied it starts changing to NaOH. The pH goes from 7 to 10 in a very short time.

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by hvyironfr8dog

I am also assembling a S/S plate design, and a coiled wire design and want to test my 3 different designs to see which works best. Some people build some pretty elablorate designs. IMO, K.I.S.S. is the key or you will drive yourself nuts. I will let you how I make out or if my sanity goes first.

Well the 304 ss works for a test generator...and part of the drop off in amps is due to lower electrolyte level due to air being pulled thru one cell...the "gel" stuff doesn't keep the cell from working.

My major complaint with most of the HHO forums and the youtube stuff is people talking about all the amazing bubbles they see, but no posting of actual gas production. But I need to post mine yet for the 2 in tandem.

Also...the perfectionists who are more interested in pushing the perfect tero cell and discouraging people from just making a generator...rather than doing it the KISS way and getting one in use.

Yea...chasing around looking for the perfect cell design will send you around the bend pretty quick.

I think at least...that the wire, screen, or threaded bolt type cells run at maybe 6V are feasible in that they all use small radius electrodes which might reduce heat and increase efficiency even at 6Vs...have no proof though.

I'm thinking that if my 3 plate design works out OK...I might try duplicating it using 316 ss wire mesh...just need to be sure I get no unwanted contacts inside the cell. Can get a 12" x 12" piece at McMasters for $15 or so.

People also are afraid of glass canning jars...but they are rugged and made to be immersed in boiling water and take a vacuum.

Two basic things needed?

* room to install the generator

* a way to keep it cool

The perfect most efficient cell is not the highest priority...at least to start?

[GasSavers_RoadWarrior]

Has anyone got any hard data on plate spacing? Wanna know the minimum I can use. Have some fine SS mesh put away, biggest canning jar I've got will take approx a 72mm wide assembly through the neck. Want to have an 8 plate setup so there's 7 cells in series, for just under 2V per cell at 13.8V. and want to do this in concentric tubes, around a central rod or bolt. This would mean I'd need to space them at about 4mm, with the seams possibly coming as close as 2mm to the next plate. Concerned about the possibility of it arcing over at high amps when making lots of ionised gas.

[Patton1942]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

It's in comparison to cool spring weather...and only one tank.

Not running the cells right now and after checking them out yesterday I found they were about 1/2 full of the brownish jelly type sludge (iron oxide jell?) that had settled out. Had noticed the amp draw was dropping relative to cell temps over time...doesn't look like 304 ss is going to do it...at least for the + side which is where the O is generated. Using NaOH.

Will put some pics at the link when I get my camera back...plus some specifics as to miles on the jars so far and temps vs amps.

Does anybody have any data on how the inclusion of this rust ooze effects water temp, amp being pulled, and the rate of production?

Personally, I think there has to be some sort of consequence for adding all that rust sludge. It can't be good for the distilled water and baking soda mix that is so carefully calibrated down to 1/4 tsbspn per gallon (we actually did it by 1/8 tablespoon increments).

we'll be looking into that ourselves over the next few weeks, I was just curious if anybody had the info and could spare us the time.

thx.

//patton

[ZugyNA]

IMO it probably doesn't affect the amps or gas output to a great degree...the "rust" is likely colloidal sized particles of iron oxide that also might be partially "compounded" with the electrolyte...thus the "gel flakes". With 316 ss the iron is hopefully bonded with the other metals such that it can't detach so easily.

My opinion (and that's all it is) is that for a first HHO generator...it's best to go with a known design and follow it exactly....too many details to go wrong. I didn't follow my own advice though.

For questions on spacing...ask the question here?

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/index.php

[quadancer@bellsouth.net]

Hey RW, I used 1mm on my modified SmackBooster, and tested it today.
Started out too hot (over 30a and ran up to 138 degrees on the case) and after dilution hit 25a and almost stabilised at 122 degrees. Output was 1.42 litres in 66 seconds. I still don't know if it'll run away; I'm not running my truck for 5 hours idling and my battery charger is too smart - won't charge nothing. Looks like road testing is in order with stops for my laser thermometer after installation. Amp gauge should give me some idea of heat too. 25 is probably a lot to run; I'm not sure.

[cugir321]

If you're concerned with explosions then build this unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWpdtC6TJ8k&feature=user

It's pretty much explosion proof with an added bubbler. I don't love some parts of it but it will stifle any explosion...won't destroy the cell. I feel unafraid of this unit. I have it on my car. An explosion will only blow out the plastic bag. If it arch's...you'll know it! lol! you get a couple more sheets of plastic and whammo...back in business. You can add the explosion protection to any unit if the top is big enough...actually a fitting with a cork will work too....not sure a cork will protect the unit completely. It has to build up presuure to pop the cork.

I like odd multiples of plates because the positive give off oxygen. No need for the extra oxygen. I have 3 negative and two positive. My plates are between 1/8 and 1/4 inches apart. You can go nuts trying to be perfect....I probably get a little more heat but it works fine.

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

Has anyone got any hard data on plate spacing? Wanna know the minimum I can use. Have some fine SS mesh put away, biggest canning jar I've got will take approx a 72mm wide assembly through the neck. Want to have an 8 plate setup so there's 7 cells in series, for just under 2V per cell at 13.8V. and want to do this in concentric tubes, around a central rod or bolt. This would mean I'd need to space them at about 4mm, with the seams possibly coming as close as 2mm to the next plate. Concerned about the possibility of it arcing over at high amps when making lots of ionised gas.

[cugir321]

I promise you it will run away at about 15 minutes or more.....start with 1/8 teaspoon of baking soda and work up after 45 minutes or so.....my 5 plates have a good range at about an 1/8 teaspoon. I also add about 1/8 teaspoon of epsom salts...I'm told it keeps the deposits off the negative plates.

Originally Posted by quadancer@bellsouth.net

Hey RW, I used 1mm on my modified SmackBooster, and tested it today.
Started out too hot (over 30a and ran up to 138 degrees on the case) and after dilution hit 25a and almost stabilised at 122 degrees. Output was 1.42 litres in 66 seconds. I still don't know if it'll run away; I'm not running my truck for 5 hours idling and my battery charger is too smart - won't charge nothing. Looks like road testing is in order with stops for my laser thermometer after installation. Amp gauge should give me some idea of heat too. 25 is probably a lot to run; I'm not sure.

[Snax]

Originally Posted by cugir321

If you're concerned with explosions then build this unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWpdtC6TJ8k&feature=user

It's pretty much explosion proof with an added bubbler. I don't love some parts of it but it will stifle any explosion...won't destroy the cell. I feel unafraid of this unit. I have it on my car. An explosion will only blow out the plastic bag. If it arch's...you'll know it! lol! you get a couple more sheets of plastic and whammo...back in business. You can add the explosion protection to any unit if the top is big enough...actually a fitting with a cork will work too....not sure a cork will protect the unit completely. It has to build up presuure to pop the cork.

I like odd multiples of plates because the positive give off oxygen. No need for the extra oxygen. I have 3 negative and two positive. My plates are between 1/8 and 1/4 inches apart. You can go nuts trying to be perfect....I probably get a little more heat but it works fine.

Nice find. Looks like a smart safety measure.

As for the odd number of plates, I'm not following your logic. You still get 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen through electrolysis. There's really no way to alter that ratio.