Somender Singh grooves

[2000mc]

there are alot of pics on the site, and a number with plugs installed. theres only one with a bosch +4. by the looks of it a rather used plug. i'd bet it came in that way on the customers head. maybe since installing the +4 its had 'no balls' which is why theyre tring grooving now.

[ShadowWorks]

I think I will do this in the next few weeks as well

[Project84]

I really want to know the hard "before and after" mpg numbers. I really have no problem trying it, I mean, if the head is coming off anyway, why not? It sure won't hurt anything.... but... curious, does it up compression, or slightly lower it?

Can a saturn still run efficienty on unleaded fuel after you groove the head?

[GasSavers_Erik]

If you are removing material from the head, it will result in a slightly larger combustion chamber and thus will lower compression.

[jeep45238]

Originally Posted by Project84

I really want to know the hard "before and after" mpg numbers. I really have no problem trying it, I mean, if the head is coming off anyway, why not? It sure won't hurt anything.... but... curious, does it up compression, or slightly lower it?

Can a saturn still run efficienty on unleaded fuel after you groove the head?

You'll just be lowering the c/r by a few points at worst case. The engines were designed to run 87 octane from Spring Hill. Lower c/r's don't require lower octane, and they sure aren't pinging and requiring higher octane.

If you decide to do it, I really doubt you'll have to change your fuel at all. I'm hesitant to lower my c/r, let alone the risk of hitting the coolant jacket.

That's just me though - if I'm wrong, I'm wrong

[DRW]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

there are alot of pics on the site, and a number with plugs installed. theres only one with a bosch +4. by the looks of it a rather used plug. i'd bet it came in that way on the customers head. maybe since installing the +4 its had 'no balls' which is why theyre tring grooving now.

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but what you said breaks one of the cardinal rules for modifying cars: Make sure the engine runs correctly before modifying it.

In other words, if it doesn't run right, then fix what's wrong. It's a bad idea to modify something in order to make up for a deficiency somewhere else.

[2000mc]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

...maybe since installing the +4 its had 'no balls' which is why theyre tring grooving now.

that part is purely speculation

i was mainly just saying, in response to the prior post, that singh's grooves shouldn't be discounted due to a customer bringing in a head with a spark plug viewed by some as being rather deficient.

having heard nothing but bad about the plugs myself, i added that last line. it would have been much more clear if i would have just said that i wasnt tring to defend the +4's and agreed with his view on them.

[dkjones96]

I've never had a problem with the Bosch +2 plugs in any car I've used them in. They give you the benefit of the surface gap discharge without the two extra electrodes getting in the way that the +4 has.

BUT, that isn't why they'd run like crap in this particular car. That cylinder head was designed for a projected tip plug to be installed and the +4 isn't. However, with the electrode configuration on that plug I wouldn't be surprised if it ran just fine but with no added benefit.

And the electrode doesn't wear below the porcelain. I'll take a picture as soon as I can remember of a set of +2 plugs that have over 20k miles on them.

[suspendedhatch]

That website reads like an awful scam. Full of fluff and no hard info.

Then I saw the pics and I laughed. The whole thing is reminiscent of the tornado fuel saver.

[itjstagame]

usedgeo, all your tanks are still right around 60MPG 1 year later. Do you really think the groove helped you? I saw your first couple posts after showing 70-85MPG but they never made it a full tank or at least not to your gaslog.

Also on the first page someone posted a link to the turbobricks forum. In my opinion that's the best resource. Regardless of what Signh said or did or suggested himself, people on the turbo bricks forum have been doing a particular thing for years now. I'm not sure it's the same as Singh's since I can't understand his site, but clearly it's based on it and they claim good results. Just look at all posts by 'AutomotiveBreathe' he seems to really have some history with grooves.

More importantly, if you jump to the last page, now they're dimpling their heads! Yes I guess they got tired wondering if grooves really work or not so moved on to another unproved idea. What are your guys thoughts on that?