So pill bottles don't make good PCV catch cans....

[rh77]

Originally Posted by theclencher

OK, some of you have been running catch cans for quite some time. Has anyone that started with a clean intake manifold pulled the throttle body to see if it's clean in the intake or not? My suspicion is the crankcase fumes are nothing compared to the EGR fumes and that is where all the crud in the intake is coming from, rendering the catch can pretty much pointless. True or false?

Excellent point Clench. I usually empty about 5cc every month or so from the PCV catcher. I'm hoping that the oily blow-by from that source is worse than than the post-combustion by-products (with respect to clogging injectors, buildup of carbon, etc.)

Does anyone have a theory?

RH77

[Bill in Houston]

With lots of blowby in an old engine, blowby seems worse. With a new engine, EGR fumes seem worse.

Also there's not really anything you can do about EGR, whereas you CAN do something about the PCV.

Maybe?

[rh77]

I thought about doing the PCV catch to the TSX -- and it doesn't have an EGR system -- the management is handled by variable cam timing at idle -- which should help with the longevity of the components (with respect to the exhaust gas aspect; however, I'm afraid to add the PCV Catch component to that car while it's under warranty). So far, it's had to go in a couple times for warranty stuff and now the sunroof is malfuntioning, so it has to go in for that next. All I need is a picky tech to declare "tampering with an OEM component". <Sigh>

[Bill in Houston]

DO you have a way to peek into your intake and see if there is a trail of goo coming from the PCV connection? I doubt that there is...

[usedgeo]

Originally Posted by theclencher

OK, some of you have been running catch cans for quite some time. Has anyone that started with a clean intake manifold pulled the throttle body to see if it's clean in the intake or not? My suspicion is the crankcase fumes are nothing compared to the EGR fumes and that is where all the crud in the intake is coming from, rendering the catch can pretty much pointless. True or false?

I am going to agree with theclencher on this one. I pulled the intake off the 97 bonneville with 140k last night. Coolant was going away with no external links. I have been lucky with respect to this known problem on my gm cars to this point. Anyway the plenum is uniformly covered with slimy crud. I was trying to decied if it was coming from the EGR or the PVC. The dispersion is uniform. There was about a cup or two of antifreeze colored liquid in the intake plenum too . It looks like the coolant was getting in the oil but the oil level never increased. This engine runs pretty hot. I will keep my fingers cross with respect to the bearings.

usedgeo.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by usedgeo

I am going to agree with theclencher on this one. I pulled the intake off the 97 bonneville with 140k last night. Coolant was going away with no external links. I have been lucky with respect to this known problem on my gm cars to this point. Anyway the plenum is uniformly covered with slimy crud. I was trying to decied if it was coming from the EGR or the PVC. The dispersion is uniform. There was about a cup or two of antifreeze colored liquid in the intake plenum too . It looks like the coolant was getting in the oil but the oil level never increased. This engine runs pretty hot. I will keep my fingers cross with respect to the bearings.

usedgeo.

Perhaps it was leaking from the TB coolant lines?

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by usedgeo

I am going to agree with theclencher on this one. I pulled the intake off the 97 bonneville with 140k last night. Coolant was going away with no external links. I have been lucky with respect to this known problem on my gm cars to this point. Anyway the plenum is uniformly covered with slimy crud. I was trying to decied if it was coming from the EGR or the PVC. The dispersion is uniform. There was about a cup or two of antifreeze colored liquid in the intake plenum too . It looks like the coolant was getting in the oil but the oil level never increased. This engine runs pretty hot. I will keep my fingers cross with respect to the bearings.

usedgeo.

headgaskets shot, that goop is coolant mixed with oil. dont wait too long cuz it will prolly leak enough to where the oil is geting to thin cuz of the coolant "watering it down" and will eventually kill your engine.

your engine is running hot cuz you prolly have no coolant (dont mix orange and green, unless it specifically says safe to mix with all types of coolant), again if its getting up to 210 or hotter than that you will eventually warp or possibly crack a head. not a fun thing to fix/pay for if u have someoen do it.

lemme guess its the 3600 series v6 right? its a common problem with those engines

[jwxr7]

Originally Posted by usedgeo

I am going to agree with theclencher on this one. I pulled the intake off the 97 bonneville with 140k last night. Coolant was going away with no external links. I have been lucky with respect to this known problem on my gm cars to this point. Anyway the plenum is uniformly covered with slimy crud. I was trying to decied if it was coming from the EGR or the PVC. The dispersion is uniform. There was about a cup or two of antifreeze colored liquid in the intake plenum too . It looks like the coolant was getting in the oil but the oil level never increased. This engine runs pretty hot. I will keep my fingers cross with respect to the bearings.

usedgeo.

sounds like a 3800 series problem . Darned plastic intake melts near the egr valve.

[usedgeo]

[QUOTE=It looks like the coolant was getting in the oil but the oil level never increased. This engine runs pretty hot. I will keep my fingers crossed with respect to the bearings.

usedgeo.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice. Here are some pictures if you are interested. The Bonneville has the 3800 engine. It is a very nice running engine in spite of this problem.

PICTURES of gaskets.

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07185/OLD_GASKET_DETAIL.JPG

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07185/OLD_PLASTIC_GASKET.JPG

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07185/NEW_GM_GASKET.JPG

It sure looks like these old gaskets could have been leaking. GM just released new gaskets made with aluminum spacers rather than plastic ones. It was a logical move but too bad it came about 10 years too late.

I do not think the plastic plenum was leaking but you are right about the heat from the EGR affecting it. It was quite punky. I could not see a crack but bought a new one anyway. No use to mess with it when it looked so poor. The new plenum came with a reduced diameter egr tube for the lower manifold that should give a bit more distance between the plastic and the EGR gasses. It is not required to change it if one is present but the new one looks like a design improvement.

I think the engine survived this, but time will tell.

usedgeo

[GasSavers_TomO]

I know that the 3800 motors with the plastic intakes are notorious for cracking and leaking coolant into the motor. There is also a coolant elbow on the back side of the motor near the intake that cracks as well. I just got done replacing the head gasket and intake along with that elbow on a friends intrigue.