Is HHO the way to go?

[GasSavers_Pete]

For those seriously interested there are sites dedicated to water injection and related topics.
This is one:
http://www.waterinjection.info/

and there are others.

Cheers , Pete.

[ZugyNA]

This is HHO injection...different beast.

[GasSavers_maxc]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

This is HHO injection...different beast.

Yes it is. But I read a study a month ago posted on the Speedtalk site. It said under certain conditions the flame front travels faster with a particular water/air/fuel mix. Compaired to if you decrease the "water" at that "mix". Can't find the study.

[ZugyNA]

At the least you get plenty of water vapor with an HHO setup.

Some of the best info?

http://waterfuelcell.org/WFCprojects..._cell_v1.2.pdf

Best bet is to follow the links and a search engine and collect info? Then try to understand it....

[flapdoodle]

I have the generator bench tested and on the car now. It feels like a smaller car at lower throttle. so far I am delighted.

This is the unit that resides on the transmission hump.
More detail here:
http://flapdoodle.250free.com/HHO_generator.html

[GasSavers_maxc]

Someone installed an HAFC on there F150. http://majornews.com/modules/wordpress

[ZugyNA]

Looks like you solved the freezing problem? Bring it inside?

"More coming Input, comments welcome, but please do not e-mail me telling me I am doing it wrong without having tried it yourself, do not have hard data to support your claims, or are comparing this one designed for my 7.5 liter engine to the one you hope to someday/maybe build for your 1.5 liter car."

Who could this be?

How are your cells temps? I think one guy found that if they get too hot...you get water vapor rather than HHO.

Have you tested your L / min output? Just curious.

[flapdoodle]

Why are you asking the same questions here that you asked in your many e-mails, and had already been answered just for you on the webpage?


Feb 3, 08
Alcohol as an antifreeze (this may be my winter recipe)
4 ounces denatured alcohol, 1 3/4 tsp NaOH, 20oz. deionized water
2.85 amps steady stream of bubbles.

As I told you before, I do not have room under the hood for the generator, that is why it is inside, plus it allows me to keep an eye on it during debugging.

Water vapor is produced at ALL temperatures, that is why snow goes away in sub-zero temps through a process called sublimation. If you are trying to imply as you did in your e-mails that my cells are too hot, they are not.

This was with ONE cell, they are in series now and quite cool...
"I was curious about the claims that temperature reduces efficiency with 12 volts/cell (regulated).
time amp temp ?F ~bubbles./minute bubbles/min/amp
6:25 8.9 88.3 140 bubbles 15.7
6:27 9.8 96.8 160+ 16.3+
6:32 10.1 100 180 17.8
6:37 10.9 110 190+ 17.3+

With a rise of 22 degrees, the production went up 10%
After this, I have a hard time believing the claim of reduced efficiency for higher temperatures."

It is much more likely that there is loss of water in the electrolyte because of vacuum which reduces vapor pressure. Something akin to freeze drying.

I have responded to your question of gas production at least twice.

Be suspicious of claims of 1 liter per minute with 10 amps consumed per generator. Amperes is a measurement of force, not power. It takes 4 kilowatt hours of power to make 1 cubic meter (1,000 liters) of hydrogen assuming high efficiency. This means 10 amps at 12 volts (120 watts) can make .5 liters of hydrogen per minute.

[ZugyNA]

The person mentioned as far as water vapor designed a modified SmackBooster and found that the gas produced would not burn...my guess being that it was running too hot due to his attempts a making a sealed series plate design out of it. His cell temps were in the 158F range...at least outside the cell...temp around the plates was likely higher.

A lot of gas that is mostly water vapor is not good. Can't push these cells.

My 3 plate cell tested at .07 L / min running at 12V....6 amps and 113F. Impressive eh? My guess is around .25 L / min with 2....3 plate cells in series running at 6V.

You can find 91% isopropyl which might work. 70% also. Isopropyl has been used as a gas additive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl

isopropyl is a substituent form of propane, the three-carbon alkyl functional group. As an isomer of propyl, bonding to an R group occurs at the secondary (2?) carbon.

[gto78]

I second the point that you need to modify the cars computer signal from the Oxygen sensor in order for the HHO generator to work. All the studies I've seen and read say that since the combustion process is more efficient (quite a few people are claiming ZERO emissions) that your oxygen sensor thinks the car is running too lean. It compensates by adding enough fuel to get a "normal" reading. As a result people gain nothing, sometimes get worse mileage by installing an HHO generator. That's the reason why people are installing the EIFE devices to change the oxygen sensor reading.

HHO devices (depending on who designed it) usually only use about 10 amps more or less. This is about the same energy used as turning on one headlight. I don't know about anyone else, but my mileage doesn't change when turning on my headlights... In exchange the HHO produced is simply a catalyst added to the mixture of fuel/air already present in the engine. It makes the fuel burn completely inside the cylinder instead of being wasted by burning throughout the exhaust system.