Is HHO the way to go?

[GasSavers_Russ]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

What would work for your outside electrode?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/I...D:100000174760

Along with the Dollar store pizza cutter wheels?

You might want to add a simple bubbler to avoid flashback? Could just be a jar with water in it. The gas bubbles up thru the water before going to the engine...also removes some contaminants.

Interesting pages?

http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_My...s/Electrolysis

Good work to him

I bet he has spent a few

[gabet123]

Originally Posted by Scott

I saw the add for Water 4 Gas here and decided to check it out. Well I must say I'm impressed, I have been told by so many in industry that cracking hydrogen from water takes more energy to make than the gas that is produced that I wrote off the idea of hydrogen along with the fuel cell revolution. There have been so many Nay Sayers going, the infrastructure of America cannot support broad use of hydrogen and prodution, that I thought hydrogen was just another idea that was researched, tested, and found to be a failure. Incedentially the nay sayers being large companies I'v researched in my quest for greener living. A hobby of stock research and futures on energies, broad range HHO production is said to be too expensive.

Well I was wrong, its seems as easy as a revolution of backyard mechanics putting together small jar HHO generators to double the mileage of there cars was a reality. So I have been combing the net looking for all sorts of info on HHO and the best source I found was Youtube, just enter HHO or MPG in a search and you will be treated to thousands of video's by home experimenters making HHO for pennies. Also Water 4 Gas has great schematics for building HHO generators for cheap.

HHO, Hydrogen/Oxygen is simply made by making a sandwich of stainless steel plates in a bath of baking soda and water. Use the 12 volts from your car battery to start the electrolisis process in the plates and viola, you can suppliment your gasoline with a stream of HHO.

The benefits, in a fuel injected car, the O2 sensor will read a rich condition and lean the mix, your burning less gasoline getting better mileage and it only costs you water and baking soda.

So as soon as I buy my next car ( Saturn, Civic, Escort, or Geo), I'll start building some cells and see how much HHO I can make.

Has anyone out there had any luck assembling cells and does the mileage double? From the info on Youtube, it seems the skys the limit. Oh also, if you do build a system, make sure you install back fire valves, so you don't have a Hindenburg under the hood.

Oh, MPG Research has started a column on Hydrogen, this seems to be the fuel of the future, I can't wait to hear the responce. Thank you.

I wanted to let you know about http://hhoinfo.ning.com we are a group of HHO builders who have come together from all over the world to work as a team to figuere this technology out and bring it to the forefront. You should join us. We have people from all walks of life and that is one of the things that makes it such an iteresting system. We get all sorts of ideas running through the system. Not all of it works but the stuff that does is awesome.

Gabet123

[1993CivicVX]

it hasn't come yet. But I'm half considering of trying it on my car. My car already burns lean. So what will this mean for my emissions if HHO is making my engine burn even leaner? Will a car with lean burn get any benefit from it?

Do larger cars get more benefit than smaller ones?

[ZugyNA]

I'd start testing with lower amps...maybe 3 cold and 6 hot? Since you are already doing 60 mpg...it ought to be interesting.

I'm pretty much convinced that HHO does improve mpg...the question being whether you just buy a generator or make one and what kind to make or buy.

There is something in investing called "opportunity cost"...where if you don't make a trade...you've lost the chance to make some $....but there is always some amount of risk involved. So you have to balance risk and reward.

Same with HHO...the longer you wait...the more fuel you can use and the more it costs you? At the same time...if you "roll your own" or buy one you can make mistakes that will set you back $ wise also.

I don't think you need a tero cell to utilize HHO...mason jar series cells work just fine if tweaked out right?

[GasSavers_RoadWarrior]

Originally Posted by 1993CivicVX

it hasn't come yet. But I'm half considering of trying it on my car. My car already burns lean. So what will this mean for my emissions if HHO is making my engine burn even leaner? Will a car with lean burn get any benefit from it?

Do larger cars get more benefit than smaller ones?

The civic lean burn is a stratified charge type, that means there's one pocket of probably near 16:1 mixture that burns and one pocket of pure air. So average is 25:1 but locally the mixture is rich enough to burn. Since H2 injection has been shown by Arvin Meritor and MIT to move the lean limit to about 26:1 in a HOMOGENOUS charge, then a stratified charge type of lean burn system should be able to get benefits from it. However, you do have to ensure that your HHO or H2 get inducted with the charge and not the "spare air" or you might have issues with it, one way to do this might be to regulate H2/HHO induction with the injector pulse when in lean burn mode.

edit: or it might be nice just to replace all fuel maps with the lean burn map and shoot for 25:1 at all times.

[Physicist]

HHO has two different meanings. One is a mixture of gases produced from electrolysis of water. The other is a magnetic combination (Google Magangas) which is produced from extreme current arks passed through water.

Since the cat is out of the bag now and it is well known by the readers of this group that producing HHO by electrolysis of water is a very energy wasteful process due to the loss in heat, inefficiencies in electricity generated by alternators spun by fan belts with with friction involved, whose initial energy is created by inefficient burning of gasoline in an internal combustion engine -- that something had to be done to continue this scam.

It is now being claimed that HHO is somehow a "catalyst" that increases the, to gasoline burned and decreases the amount wasted. Wasted gasoline is converted to heat in the catalytic converter. If a sufficient amount of gasoline was on guard the catalytic converter would very quickly become red hot. The fact is that modern engines burn almost all of the gasoline that is injected into the cylinders. The theoretical maximum amount of energy that can be obtained from burning fuel is a function of the burning temperature and the cold temperature. Google "carnot" for the explanation of what's going on.

The "patriot movement" has always been ripe for exploitation because all you have to do is say "the government is hiding this" and they will be there with their checkbook in hand.

Many letters will be written and many kits will be sold and no one will ever get an increase in mileage that is not simply the result of them driving more gently. No one would dare admit that they were taken because they are embarrassed to admit their ignorance.

I am writing this because it angers me that the affiliates and producers of this bogus product are making money from the ignorant. In my opinion you are every bit as evil as the government that you claim is hiding energy-efficient devices.

I've seen these scams come and go for over 20 years. Sucker born every minute.

- The Physicist

Originally Posted by Scott

I saw the add for Water 4 Gas here and decided to check it out. Well I must say I'm impressed, I have been told by so many in industry that cracking hydrogen from water takes more energy to make than the gas that is produced that I wrote off the idea of hydrogen along with the fuel cell revolution. There have been so many Nay Sayers going, the infrastructure of America cannot support broad use of hydrogen and prodution, that I thought hydrogen was just another idea that was researched, tested, and found to be a failure. Incedentially the nay sayers being large companies I'v researched in my quest for greener living. A hobby of stock research and futures on energies, broad range HHO production is said to be too expensive.

Well I was wrong, its seems as easy as a revolution of backyard mechanics putting together small jar HHO generators to double the mileage of there cars was a reality. So I have been combing the net looking for all sorts of info on HHO and the best source I found was Youtube, just enter HHO or MPG in a search and you will be treated to thousands of video's by home experimenters making HHO for pennies. Also Water 4 Gas has great schematics for building HHO generators for cheap.

HHO, Hydrogen/Oxygen is simply made by making a sandwich of stainless steel plates in a bath of baking soda and water. Use the 12 volts from your car battery to start the electrolisis process in the plates and viola, you can suppliment your gasoline with a stream of HHO.

The benefits, in a fuel injected car, the O2 sensor will read a rich condition and lean the mix, your burning less gasoline getting better mileage and it only costs you water and baking soda.

So as soon as I buy my next car ( Saturn, Civic, Escort, or Geo), I'll start building some cells and see how much HHO I can make.

Has anyone out there had any luck assembling cells and does the mileage double? From the info on Youtube, it seems the skys the limit. Oh also, if you do build a system, make sure you install back fire valves, so you don't have a Hindenburg under the hood.

Oh, MPG Research has started a column on Hydrogen, this seems to be the fuel of the future, I can't wait to hear the responce. Thank you.

[GasSavers_roy]

Hello everyone, my name is Roy(newbie, please no cat calls till tomorrow) and I currently have a site where I posted my journey with HHO from purchase to installation. I have a few pics there showing some of the details. The site is located at http://www.houseofbugs.com/weblog/?site_id=308.

One day I said, enough is enough! When the gas prices kept rising, and still are, I decided that I was going to find a better way. I am still working on that.

My first journey was with one of the sites that abound on the internet. I ran across a using water for gasoline post while googling about an unrelated topic.

I didn't take any action, just read the -homepage only-site that was just a glorified ad for an ebook.
I mentioned the site to my sister and in her desire to save on her weekly fuel bill for her family of almost 250/ week, she purchased that book.

Came to find out, that the book was pretty much assembly information using stainless steel tubing made into a tank with a remote water tank to keep it filled.

If that would have been my only experience with this technology, I would have file 13'd that one, but I didn't give up. Main thing is that I do not have time for that kind of assembly. Finding the parts and all that stuff was asking a bit much for me to do for something that I had little understanding or information about. Then the author had some coil you make and place on the top to charge the gas/water mixture in the unit. That was too much for me to handle, I was just trying to find another way, not journey overseas looking for the mythical hydrogen generator.

Well to make a very very long story shorter,
currently my vehicle, a plymouth van, has two jars under the hood(yes mason jars). I had to set them in there the best way that I could because there was little room under there for any sort of mounting bracket.

These jars(purchased unit from a backyard floridian who is making them at his home) are hooked into the intake of the engine via a vacuum hose. There is a check valve in the HHO feed line.

The water inside has 1/2 tsp of baking soda in each jar.
The jars are filled up 3/4 full and there is a water trap in the HHO feed line just in case.

I am currently getting in the mid to upper 20mpg range on level road(per onboard computer-up from upper 13mpg's without the units) after some tweaking,which I won't go into here, but you can go read about it on my site if you are interested.

I am going to put a link to this site from mine. It's good to read some fellow HHOers and their comments. Some folks think this whole hydrogen thing(I coined a term, homeboy hybrid) is a load of crap, but I tell you, us having to pay the big bucks for fuel and get our lives squelched from the associated bills that are rising rapidly at the stores(from rising fuel costs) is the real crap.

Will be back again, bye for now.

[GasSavers_roy]

Hello all,
Great reading the new posts. My units are still making the gas and the mileage is still looking good on the OBC.
I recently posted on the local news station blog. Fox4 Texas. I currently have a blog I opened there and will be posting a link back to this site on my next visit there.

Fox4texas.com I think it is. The other night this reporter on there had a story about one of the gas saver books for sale online. He invited folks to go there and post, so I did. I don't like the book that he chose though. My sister purchased one similar to that one on her first try to save some gas, and it really was a bit much on the technical side for her.

I could agree with the fact that the reporter couldnt find any mechanics in his sweep that were able to make the unit or install it.
Its one of those fancy stainless steel tanks with electrodes in the top and a backup water tank in the trunk, control panel, and accelerator adjuster...the list goes on for things that you have to make for the system, with no adjustment for the sensor limiters(o2 etc).

He also mentions in the book that my sister purchased, that a person using his system will have to replace the valves eventually, I presume because of the high gas output.

He recommends stainless steel valves, which also was recommended by a person driving a 100 percent water car on his personal web page(don't have the link right now).

He reported that his valves all corroded after a bit on his intial water-gas car experiment and that he replaced them, along with his corroded exhaust system, with stainless steel. Word for the wise?

I think he mentioned a 22k price tag for the valves and exhaust in all stainless steel.

Back to my beer budget project, I am planning to add a few more jars (maybe a 4 pack) to my under the hood setup. These will have to be the smaller mason jars though, mainly because it is all the room that there is, and that will be pushing it.

I have located some plastic mason jar caps at a local grocery store(8 pack made by ball). My original purchased jars have metal lids with gaskets/glue keeping everything separate as far as positives and negatives.

I have noticed that my mileage results(OBC on board computer)go up and stay up for several hours after adding some fresh peroxide to the jars before a trip.

I can do this easily because the guy I purchased my current jars from, installed some small stoppers in the lids for easy access.

I just pull them, pour in the peroxide when I am fixing to go for a drive, and button them up.

I have a large syringe that has some tubing on the end that can be used for withdrawing some of the solution inside of the jars if needed.

So far all of my driving has been city driving.

Bye for now.

[hotcubed]

I haven't used HHO on my car, but my dad uses it on his biodiesel Jetta and it gets a ridiculous amount of increase. I'm pretty sure his average highway MPG without it was somewhere around 40 mpg. Now, he is getting anywhere around 60+ mpg.

I've heard a lot of folks bash it, but it seems to work pretty darn well and give good results for many.

[mpcondo]

I've read a little about using HHO and it seems that the general opinion is that it takes too much energy to produce the HHO so it isn't effective. So I had an idea, and thats all it is just an idea. Will it be effective to use solar energy to make the HHO? I recently pulled four solar panels out of those little solar garden lights that I was gonna just throw away and I wired them together to create a solar powered cell phone/ipod charger. So, I am questioning if the amount of voltage that is put out by my solar charger is enough to created a significant amount of HHO. ( it puts out about 8 voltz)

I wired my solar panels to a usb port, so I figured i could run the wire up to my dashboard or a mount on my hood with a usb plug and plug in the solar charger when I wanted to use it.

Any comments or thoughts are appreciated.