gasoline and veggie oil, to much time to think.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

PIB = polyisobutylene

http://www.google.com/patents?id=IDQ...BAJ&dq=5906665

PIB is in Torco GP7 and the synthetic lubricant in it also helps lubricate the fuel system and upper cylinders - only 2.5 - 3cc is needed per 10 gallons of fuel and the PIB is supposed to help the fuel burn better.

[gerharddvs]

Hi, I was looking into bio-fuels and I came across this form.
I wanting to to use a substitute for 2-stroke oil in the little 200cc 2-stroke bike I drive to work every day because 2-stroke oil is becoming very expensive around here plus I can cut on pollution. A common vegetable oil around here that is very cheap is sunflower oil. Has anyone tried this and will it cause damage?
I'm actually very interested in Rylands experiment and what the outcome was?

I'm going to try and mix 50% (new) sunflower oil and 50% 2-stroke oil just to test and see what happens

[GasSavers_RoadWarrior]

Originally Posted by Dust

If you try this, I would suggest that you check your oil for polymerization. A guy at biodiesel.infopop tried it in his wife's freestar and had some partially solidified engine oil come out after 3000 miles. When the engine is cold, the unburned biodiesel gets past the rings and into the oil.

I suspect that this was actually using vegetable oil (SVO) or waste vegetable oil (WVO) due to a high content of waxes, starches, iodine compounds, acidic esters, etc etc etc... don't use plain veggie oil.. use fully converted B100, it's not the same.

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by gerharddvs

I'm going to try and mix 50% (new) sunflower oil and 50% 2-stroke oil just to test and see what happens

Might find some 2 stroke oil online or use some low ash synth motor oil? I used to use cheap motor oil in a 2 stroke long ago and it eventually gaulded the piston due to friction.

[gerharddvs]

I've tried normal oil but it carbons up the spark plug. The vegetable oil seems like a very interesting idea.
In reply to RoadWarrior... Keep in mind that the oil will be ,mixing with the gas so most of those starches and waxes etc will be resolved in the gas and probably get burned up with the gas. This might even help in lubricating the bearings and stuff in the engine (in 2-stroke engines the gas mixture lubricates the engine)

[ZugyNA]

Will eventually be testing 24 oz cheap canola oil per 10 G along with 2-3 oz acetone or isopropyl. Some have reported gains.

In theory the canola might increase fuel viscosity/lube/higher BTUs and the acetone or iso might increase burn rate and reduce viscosity?

Have tested 91% iso at 4-5 oz per 10 G and I got a noticable power gain, but no mpg gain...but you need to use a top lube...canola might perform double duty...top oil and burnable for power?

Tested canola at 8 oz/ 10G and saw no gain. 4 stroke car engine.

[gerharddvs]

Keep in mind guys that I'm a electronic Engineer so what I know about chemistry is fairly dangerous though I have a good understanding of how engines work how to fix them.

B100 is the biodiesel? Can you use this as a lubricant or is it just a fuel? It looks like a very complicated process to brew. Doesn't help if it costs more then the original oil.

I was thinking about just filtering out some old vegetable oil from a food place and mixing that with the gas

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I have not done any personal testing with used veggie oil mixed with gasoline, but from what I've seen, used oil tends to be thicker and more likely to have wax-like globs in it, and of course it can vary greatly depending on the quality of the used oil, and where it came from to start with.
bio-diesel is supposed to be a great lubricant, and it should have the part of it that could give you problems already removed, new oil should work as well, but I would keep a really close eye on it.
For my chainsaw I run the amsoil 100:1 premix gas, it's a low smoke 2 stroke oil, and even with veggie oil I would be temped to still run that same oil at a 200:1 mix, or even a 300:1 mix, as it's going to hold up under more extreme pressure, but you could simply add that to your stash of veggie oil to give you a cocktail that you ad a shot of to your fuel.

Regardless, I would take each of the oils you want to use, and currently use, and mix them with gas, putting them in clear glass jars with good fitting lids, and let them sit for a few days, first without much mixing, then mix then and see if they separate, and also try putting them in a cold place for a few days and see if that has any weird affect on them.

[gerharddvs]

What should I be looking for with the jar test?
How will I know if something is wrong?

I read in another thread that it's not a good idea to use used veg oil cause it contains a lot of salt that could destroy your engine (they were talking about diesel engines)

I see canola is cheaper then sunflower they should both have the same viscosity?

I'm going to try putting a cup of new sunflower or canola on a tank of gas(8.5litres) still using two stoke aswell and see how it runs...

[GasSavers_Dust]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

I suspect that this was actually using vegetable oil (SVO) or waste vegetable oil (WVO) due to a high content of waxes, starches, iodine compounds, acidic esters, etc etc etc... don't use plain veggie oil.. use fully converted B100, it's not the same.

Mixing veg based oils and petro based oils is not a good idea. Mineral oils tend to be polymerized by veg oils. Here's what happened to me:
Let me relate my story to you. My wife drives a 1998 Pontiac Montana minivan. 3.4L gasoline engine. I of course drive a Suburban TD. I make my Biodiesel from very lightly used soybean oil, and wash well. Last year my wifes van developed a misfire. After a short diagnostic procedure, I determined it to be a clogged fuel injector. (one must disassemble half of the engine to remove the fuel rail and injectors) The dealership has a method of hooking up a small pressurized vessel filled with injector cleaner and a small amount of gasoline. The fuse to the electric fuel pump is removed and this small tank is hooked to the fuel rail. The engine is then run until this small vessel is empty. Voila! Clean injectors. For the nominal fee of 250 dollars! Now I am aware of Biodiesels excellent solvent capabilities, so I wondered if it would do a good job of cleaning the injectors. I filled the tank with a 10% blend of BD and gasoline. Within 50 miles, the mis-fire went away and the service engine soon light went out. I ran two tankfuls of this 10% blend in the van. I thought WOW this is great! I can cut her gasoline usage and keep everything clean and running great as well. My balloon was quickly deflated soon after these two tankfuls. The soy bean derived BD polymerised the engine oil. A couple of close spaced oil changes cured that, but I have not experimented again with BD in an SI engine. Now I realize there are several factors that could be the culprit. Mineral oil in the van (I use Mobil 1 synthetic in my 'Burb), A fouled injector causes fuel dilution of the crankcase oil (perhaps a good running engine would not have experienced the polymerization), or maybe BD made from a different plant oil would not cause the polymerization. I don't know, I have not carried out further experiments on it. The van ran very well on the 10% blend BTW. Just a heads up about something to be aware of with veg oil or BD in an SI engine.(the polymerization). end post.

So, the mineral oil in the enigine polymerized within two tankfuls of a 10% blend. It did do a marvelous job of cleaning the fouled injector. Yes, this gasser is fuel injected not carbureted. Perhaps synthetic oil would not have polymerized.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...51/m/408105326