Experiment for VXers

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

The grades around here are very mild, no hills that would keep me at WOT for any significant amount of time.

I used the example of the hill just to point out that WOT doesn't always mean acceleration. It certainly doesn't always mean "nut case" acceleration.

But you don't need hills to use WOT. You can live on a perfectly flat planet, and still use WOT exclusively (which is exactly what I try to do). It just needs to be done alternately with periods of coasting (and that's what's known as P&G, obviously). And so long as you do it at low rpm (high gear), you will manage to completely avoid "nut case" acceleration. Hopefully that alleviates your concerns about being perceived as a "nut case!"

Have you tried reversing your intake snorkel for warm air intake, picking up the
warm air from the top radiator tank area?

No. But it would interest me to hear you explain why you think it never occurred to Honda to do something so simple.

less air density makes it possible to increase your throttle position for the same power output with less pumping losses

Since I'm already using WOT, pumping losses are as low as they are going to get.

It could allow slightly higher throttle positions to stay in lean burn.

Since I'm using WOT, lean burn is something that essentially never happens.

[R.I.D.E.]

Yep and thats why my mileage is 15% higher than yours.

regards
gary

[R.I.D.E.]

Original snorkel position more power. WAI position better mileage, and easily reversible. Hope you can understand the answer. They chose power. My average mileage now is 3 MPG better than the original EPA highway rating, with tires at 34 PSI since they are almost 15 years old.

Current average just over 57 MPG, last tank 57.58.

regards
gary

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

Yep and thats why my mileage is 15% higher than yours.

I hope you'll tell us about the advanced technology you're using to monitor my average mpg. Since I haven't posted it.

Anyway, I think I recall you mentioning that your regular driving conditions are ideal for high mpg. So I guess the special technology you're using to monitor my mpg has also informed you that my driving conditions are just like yours?

Original snorkel position more power. ... They chose power.

They made lots of other decisions that involved the FE/power tradeoff, and chose FE. Why did they go the other way on this one?

[R.I.D.E.]

LMAO try going down that hill in 5th EOC and WOT, then let off the throttle and watch it speed up. You know the one you go up at 1200 and WOT.

Your position on WOT is shared by no one who is getting best mpg, and if you could test and prove me wrong I am sure you wouldn't hesitate a second to post it here. A test I suggested earlier and one that proves beyond a doubt you are misinformed.

Do some research. It's a well known fact that without lean burn, like my Del Sol, 70-75% is better.

On a 6 lane divided highway in fairly heavy traffic, average speed 47 MPH, I won't use WOT for exactly the reason I already posted. Instead I use 4-5 second pulses and 14-20 or more second glides without dropping more than 6 MPH. I may or may not be in lean burn but at a rate of acceleration of about 1 mph per second its close. I am usually the last one through the intersection before the light changes, drafting and P&Ging at 60 MPG.

Oh yes and never EOC except the last 3 tenths of a mile home. With EOC I could probably get close to 70, but at my age I prefer Situational Awareness and less wear and tear.

You see lean burn is another advantage of a VX, you choose to eliminate any possibility of using it which was what was requested by the original poster of this thread.

I guess you aren't going to join the experiment LOL .

Beating the old epa highway average in all my driving is close to my 60 MPG goal for average mileage. Think I'll go put 4 more pounds of air in those 15 year old tires. It will be very close to 60 next tank.

regards
gary

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

I guess you aren't going to join the experiment

That's very humorous, since there's only one person in this thread who actually posted a comparison of running the same route with and without lean burn. Let's see if you can guess who it is.

if you could test and prove me wrong I am sure you wouldn't hesitate a second to post it here

I guess you didn't notice the results of the test I ran.

Anyway, I'm still hoping you'll explain how you know your overall mileage is 15% higher than mine, since I haven't posted my overall mileage.

You're aware of information that hasn't been presented, and you're unaware of information that has been presented. That's quite an accomplishment.

[R.I.D.E.]

You have information that has not been presented?

Why?

Because it doesn't support your position.

You refuse to do a simple test based on your assumption that it would damage your engine.

Because it refutes your position.

You used accusations of lying, Freudian analysis, and other attempts at character assasination because I dont agree with your assumptions.

Its called propaganda, specificially Character assasination.

Because you think it supports your position.

You claim to have evidence that supports your position but refuse to divulge the information.

Because the information does not support your position.

My mileage per fillup for the last 5 tanks is 55, 55, 57, 62, 65.

Your's is?

I learned to use the advantages of the differences in my VX versus my previous car a Del Sol, to achieve the same results, combined mileages of 3-5 mpg over the old EPA highway rating. You choose to guarantee they will never be utilized.

My mileage figures are for every mile I have travelled not just a specific scenario.

Where are yours?

Do you honestly believe witholding information makes you position stronger?

I have consistently beat old epa HIGHWAY mileage figures through the last several vehicles I have owned.

94 Del Sol
06 Toyota Corolla
05 Scion XB
03 Tundra
97 Altima
99 Ford pickup

Thats going back to 1999 and over 150,000 miles.

I guess your response is you don't believe me (more character assasination).

I can only assume from your responses that you believe I would come to this forum and spend time misinforming people of what I have learned over the last 40 years.

For what reason?

You on the other hand insist WOT is the way, even though it has been proven to be wrong.

Don't believe me. check Pale Melanasian's information, better than 62 MPG using a non lean burn DX model. He has made it clear that he accelerates to 2200 RPM which works out to about 52 MPH.

His car can be scanguaged and he has done thorough testing and concluded that 70% give or take) of WOT is ideal.

I guess he is also a perpetrator of falsehoods, even though his mileage is the highest of any Honda in the top ten!

Your position is unsupportable, so you revert to personal attacks, which to any rational person makes your position less supportable.

In other words put up or (you can guess the rest)

regards
gary

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

You claim to have evidence that supports your position but refuse to divulge the information.

I guess you still haven't noticed this: http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.ph...93&postcount=7

My mileage per fillup for the last 5 tanks is 55, 55, 57, 62, 65.

The average of those numbers is 58.8 mpg. Out of 400 gasoline cars in the garage, 395 are doing worse than that, and only 5 are doing better. And aside from one car with extensive aero mods, no VX has an average higher than 61.

So if those numbers you just mentioned are representative of your overall results, I hope you post a gaslog. That would be helpful to others, and hopefully you would get the recognition you deserve.

Your's is?

My worst fill ever was 34.2 mpg, and my best fill was 70.0 mpg. I drive a relatively small number of miles, and in radically different conditions. For example, I don't normally average 85-90 mph for an entire fill, but that's how I achieved 34.2 mpg. Since I started doing P&G (with nearly 100% WOT), I usually beat 50 mpg, even though I do a lot of driving under severe conditions: very short trips, and lots of cold starts. I'm usually dealing with moderate traffic, but sometimes I'm dealing with very heavy traffic and construction delays. I'm often carrying 2-3 passengers.

My results are inherently hard to interpret, because multiple factors have been causing them to vary widely, and because the total number of miles is not very high. I intend to post a log once I accumulate enough miles to represent more solid information.

You, on the other hand, are driving in very consistent conditions, and putting on a lot of miles. And you said your driving environment is ideal for FE. Very much unlike my driving environment, in other words. Therefore, your results are especially relevant and helpful, and I look forward to seeing your gaslog, once you decide to post it.

My mileage figures are for every mile I have travelled not just a specific scenario.

I'm not sure what you're saying. If I understand correctly, you're saying that the average you implied above (58.8 mpg) is representative of all the miles you've traveled, since owning the vehicle. Maybe you'll let me know if I'm understanding you correctly. Then again, maybe you're talking about some other mileage figures, but I don't know where to find them. You've posted mileage figures for every mile you've travelled? I didn't notice.

His car can be scanguaged and he has done thorough testing and concluded that 70% give or take) of WOT is ideal.

He has concluded that 75% is ideal for his car, but he acknowledges that he doesn't know whether or not it would be ideal for mine. The key distinction is that his car doesn't have a wideband sensor. That means his car is prone to entering open-loop mode, given a throttle setting past a certain threshold. That's why it's wise for him to avoid WOT. As far as I can tell, that problem does not apply to the VX.

Anyway, still waiting for you to explain how it is you know that your mileage is 15% better than mine.

[R.I.D.E.]

Well lets see;

1st quote and your response

Since you prefer to not believe something I say, my response is to assign no relevance to anything you say-it levels the playing field.

2nd quote and your comment

I can only assume you have some intent with your apparent attitude about my figures.

I have the reciepts with the mileage written on them and keep a mental tally on the total. What you could not know in your assumed higher mileage is the factoring of the distance per tank at the reported mileage (varies from 250-414 miles).

I appreciate the compliment on my performance relative to others. Frankly I didn't realize it was that good, or have any special desire to achieve any recgnition.

If you think it's such a big deal, maybe I will get around to it. Presently I have more significant priorities.

My efforts at recognition are related to my engine and powertrain patents and the rewards, whether you believe it or not, which will be amost incalculable.
I see this planet as being twice as efficient as we are now, in the span of one generation.

If my contributions are a part of that solution and that results in acclaim, personally I would prefer to remain as anonymous as the Johnson family managed to do for a long time.

If those efforts prove to provide financial reward, that would be nice, certainly a lot better than what a lot of my friends think could happen when large corporate entities may not appreciate my efforts.

The rest of your post is a little more civilized.

Today I increased the pressure in my tires to 38 psi, I filled them about a month ago at 36, they had dropped 2 psi each.

I can feel the difference. I dont need more information than the coasting improvement could get me to 60 MPG.

I really didn't want to start a gas log before a few things have happened.

Hasn't been aligned and rear upper right control arm was pulled in by the bent frame. Its probably a couple degrees negative camber, but there are no other symptoms, tracks perfect.

I would like to get it painted, might happen this week, then I can polish and wax it until the spoap and water run off.

Can still hear some brake drag from sitting for over a decade, a little slower starting, havent even looked at the plugs, think they are due.

Blah Blah Blah.

The wife told me she threw away some of the first gas reciepts, so I can only go back about a month, but the ones before that were all over 50 including the first two tanks when there was 3 gallons of god only knows how old gas in the tank.
I drove it a few hundred miles before I straightened the big dent out in the bottom of the tank using compressed air.

Also, the last three weeks I have been suffering through bone graft surgery with a surgeon who prescribed a pain medication Vicodin, which is totally ineffective for me and I was told not to take my Arthritis strength BC to boot. Two weeks later I went back to my dentist and he gave me percocet which takes a single pill a day for relief though the doasge could be as high as 2 tablets every 6 hours.

Frankly Monroe the same comment Rhett made to Scarlet applies her just the same, especially considering your unwarranted assumptions concerning my credibility.

I don't give a damn.


regards
gary

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

Blah Blah Blah.

Exactly.

Still waiting for you to explain why you said this:

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

my mileage is 15% higher than yours.

That's a peculiar claim, since you don't know what my overall mileage is. So I'm wondering if you'll ever get around to explaining why you said that.

And speaking of peculiar claims:

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

The wife told me she threw away some of the first gas reciepts, so I can only go back about a month

That's interesting to hear, since earlier you said this:

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

My mileage figures are for every mile I have travelled

I guess what you mean is that you have figures for every mile you've traveled, except for the miles you don't have figures for.