cold gas

[eivad1]

i saw a fuel canister that u put ice into to cool the gas down, would this the economy or performance

[Snax]

Reminds me of something a consumer group around here has recently become concerned with: The temperature of gasoline delivered from commercial pumps.

Supposedly the difference between 60F and 90F changes volume by as much as 5 cu. in. So obviously you don't get the same volume of fuel if they are heating their tanks. But that begs the question of whether they are really saving any money at the pump by spending it on heating fuel surrounded by 50-60F earth. I have my doubts.

Regardless, it stands to reason that fuel systems sized for performance should run more efficiently with warmer fuel temperature. (But this has more to do with injector sizing and pulse width resolution than any real combustion improvement.) Conversely, the only reason to use a 'cool can' as they are called, is to be able to dump more fuel in there and lower the threshold for detonation - allowing higher forced induction pressure and or more advanced timing. Realistically, there are better ways to do that, unless racing classification rules prohibit them.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by Snax

Reminds me of something a consumer group around here has recently become concerned with: The temperature of gasoline delivered from commercial pumps.

Supposedly the difference between 60F and 90F changes volume by as much as 5 cu. in. So obviously you don't get the same volume of fuel if they are heating their tanks. But that begs the question of whether they are really saving any money at the pump by spending it on heating fuel surrounded by 50-60F earth. I have my doubts.

Holy crap that makes me a bit angry... we'll say perturbed, as I'm generally a happy guy :P

1. Fuel is stored in the ground - where temperatures are much more stable
2. Fuel is stored in large quantities - with a very high heat capacitance so it takes quite a bit of ground heat to raise temp. Again, underground - no sun, insulated by a very large concrete structure
3. Fuel pumps calibrate themselves and what would you know? Temperature is a consideration for volume flow rate :P

If anyone is loosing money, it's the gas station itself on fuel deliveries.... You know, those big fuel trucks that make deliveries.

My final bit -- I live in Florida (Both south and central). Fuel ALWAYS exits the pump cold (the metal bits on the handle get pretty cold).

Here's a fun fact -- 5 cu. inches is about 80mL -- which is about .02 gallons of fuel!

My question is -- is that .02 gallons difference per gallon? per tank? per 100 gallons? If it's per gallon, that gives me an extra .3 gallons on my total tank... Whopededoo --Now, if my car got 4,620mpg, okay, then .02 gallons may be something to think about (that's equivalent to 100 miles from that .02 gallons of fuel). But again, they want your money - the pumps compensate for temperature (which is pretty stable as is)

...something a consumer group around here has recently become concerned with...

And that's their problem... They consume too much.

/rant

[Snax]

That sums up how I feel about it - even if the pumps do not compensate or whatever. It's like never putting your extra pennies in the little dish at the convenience store checkout but being more than happy to take them, just silly niggling selfishness not worth worrying about to most people either way.

[mrmad]

In the US, gasoline is sold in bulk at the volume it is at 60F. The pumps in the US do not compensate, so there is a difference in the volume you buy at the pump and if it is warmer, you are getting cheated and cooler the gas station is getting cheated. But the amount is nearly negligable (I had done the calculations for a post on another website, but I can't seem to find it), especially since the gas is stored undergound.

I haven't been in Canada for a few years but relatives tell me that they are now requiring above ground pumps to prevent leaking into ground water. The Canadian pumps do compensate for temperature, probably due to the temp extremes the gas would see there in above ground between winter and summer.

[eivad1]

yeah i just curious cuz i had this canister for my drag car and was thinking of putting it in my hf