Chemically modify the gasoline.

[Ford Man]

Originally Posted by Gasalene

Give it away? Why should I ? Would you?

Yes. If I had a product that I was confident in that would save drivers as much gas as you say this will and wanted to get the word out and build my customer base I'd be more than willing to make up batch and give free samples unless I knew the product was going to possibly cause fuel system/engine damage and the liability would be on me. The return of people wanting to know/buy the secret to the formula would greatly out weight the cost involved with the samples. My wife used to sell a newer brand of cosmetics and skin care products that wasn't well known, they offered to sell their distributors small packets of samples to give to prospective customers, the number of people returning to buy products after receiving free samples and trying them was much higher and profit was several 100% more than the cost of the samples. My main question is if the product works why don't you patent and market it as a consumer based product instead of trying to sell the secret? The secret would be protected and profit would be higher. If you don't have the money to do this, with proof the product worked and was safe to use I'm sure there'd be investors/automotive supply companies willing to back it.

[GasSavers_WD40]

http://www.hho4free.com/additives/naphthalene.htm
says it all

[IndyFetch]

One of the guys on this site was using the mothball method. I remember reading about it when I first joined about 3 years ago.

I remain skeptical of most additives. When I hear someone saying that they increased their fuel economy by some small amount... I think of two things:
1. They didn't adjust their figures to account for the amount of the additive added to the tank (that quart per tank should be added factored into mpg).
2. The cost of the additive in relation to the fuel savings.

[Gasalene]

Originally Posted by WD40

http://www.hho4free.com/additives/naphthalene.htm
says it all

Thank you WD40 for posting this Website on gasoline additives. It has been most helpful; however, it is a "HHO4Free" sponsored site, not a factual peer reviewed publication. As such, it contains a fair amount of bias.
For instance, all the air/fuel data presented ignores the term "stoichometric ratio" and its focus on the ideal 14.7:1 A/F ratio (chemically speaking). Some of their "assumptions" ignore this balanced ratio, leading to some erroneous results.
I find it interesting Enoz (the mothball manufacturer) states there is already napthalene in pump gas; they recommend no more than 5 mothballs per 20 gallons of gas. This is 1/4 of a 'ball per gallon. Two comments : (s)he who puts a mothball in the gas tank is hurting themself (it won't dissolve for many, many hours - plus it "puddles" on the bottom of the gas tank)... and 1/4 of a 'ball per gallon ain't squat! A total waste of time. The O2 sensor won't "see" it.
"Says it all"? I rather doubt this. HHO people are good marketeers, not scientists. One must consider the source in all presentations.

[Gasalene]

Originally Posted by Ford Man

Yes. If I had a product that I was confident in that would save drivers as much gas as you say this will and wanted to get the word out and build my customer base I'd be more than willing to make up batch and give free samples unless I knew the product was going to possibly cause fuel system/engine damage and the liability would be on me.

My main question is if the product works why don't you patent and market it as a consumer based product instead of trying to sell the secret? The secret would be protected and profit would be higher. If you don't have the money to do this, with proof the product worked and was safe to use I'm sure there'd be investors/automotive supply companies willing to back it.

"Make up a batch"? "Give free samples"? This sounds good until you realize making up a batch for a demo is impossible. Free samples? Also impossible. How do you intend to make a batch of pumped gasoline? And mail it? Ask any post office person how to...? Deliver it yourself?
Patent it? Too much prior art! Too expensive! Auto supply companies? They deal with parts, not concepts.

Investors. Ah! Ask someone who has X million bucks to put towards a concept which has no precedent and watch the reaction.

Carbonize the engine internals? This sounds mysterious & nasty! Someone needs to tell my engines of this condition. This is Bad Science! Abbreviate....
At the risk of starting another flame war, I'm gonna hit "submit reply" and see what happens. [ chembustion at yahoo dot com ]

[Ford Man]

Originally Posted by Gasalene

"Make up a batch"? "Give free samples"? This sounds good until you realize making up a batch for a demo is impossible. Free samples? Also impossible. How do you intend to make a batch of pumped gasoline? And mail it? Ask any post office person how to...? Deliver it yourself?
Patent it? Too much prior art! Too expensive! Auto supply companies? They deal with parts, not concepts.

Investors. Ah! Ask someone who has X million bucks to put towards a concept which has no precedent and watch the reaction.

I wasn't referring to sending gasoline through the mail or giving away free gasoline. I was referring to the actual product you add to the gasoline. I guess companies that market STP, Sea Foam, Slick 50, etc. are not considered auto supply companies then since they sell products for cars not parts?? With PROOF the system works and doesn't cause damage I think many millionaires would be interested in backing such a PROVEN PRODUCT, millionaires are always interested in making more money, you have to remember investing is the way most of them became millionaires whether through investing in a new product or buying stock in a new or established company. That's basically what you are asking us to do invest in a product that hasn't been PROVEN to us, and no an investor isn't likely to put $1M into a product that hasn't been PROVEN or he's not seen the results of. Millionaires didn't become millionaires by making stupid investments, but instead making smart/sound business investments. A fool and his money are soon parted. I know getting a product patented is expensive, but if you're a chemist/engineer and have made safe/sound investments this shouldn't be an issue. I'm just a disabled carpenter/construction field engineer which neither were high paying jobs, but through SAFE/SMART investing if I had a PROVEN product that I was confident in I could afford to get a patent on it. It sounds like to me you just want other people to pay you for an UNPROVEN THEORY and back a product you CLAIM works without giving any PROOF. I'm sure your reply to this is going to be you've proved it, but to whom? YOURSELF not potential customers. What we are saying is for a very small investment, if it were proven to us that it works and the cost was reasonable many on this forum plus people we would tell about it would make you much more money than the initial investment. This is the whole idea of advertising. Do you think a companies would send out samples and spend millions of dollars a year on advertising if there wasn't the potential for much greater return? They are unlike you, expecting something for nothing. I for one and most/all others on this forum are not interested in paying money for information to make a product that hasn't been proven to us and you WILL NOT receive any of my money until it's been PROVEN to me to be beneficial and will save me more money that this so called technology costs.

[Jay2TheRescue]

So you're not selling a fuel additive?

[Ford Man]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

So you're not selling a fuel additive?

My understanding is that he just wants to sell us information on how to make his additive, not actually buy an additive. As much research as people on this and other automotive/gas savings forums do on saving fuel I think if the technology was out there someone that has paid for the idea (if there are any) would have already posted it on the internet. Several years ago I found one of the water for fuel ebooks which they try to sell for about $100 posted on a web site for free. Personally I've heard about all this BS sales pitch and excuses I'm interested in hearing. Forums are supposed to be a fun place where people go to share ideas and help one another not try to sell ideas, especially UNPROVEN ideas.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Yeah, I agree. I'm tired of this pitch as well. The purpose of the forum is to share information, not sell it.

[tradosaurus]

I think he is selling old mothballs from his mothers basement.