yet another WAI experiment: Related discussion

[spotaneagle]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

My SE-R: No mods. Driver behavior changes only. 73% increase @ $00.00 investment. $671.80 fuel savings.

My xB: No mods. Driver behavior changes only. 63% increase @ $00.00 investment. $429.23 fuel savings.

you live in san fransisico and the tempurature is always the same, you dont need mods nearly as much as someone from new england

also how much did those two cars cost you? I bought my car with the $429 you saved

[spotaneagle]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

The cold, hard, facts show I've forgotten more about driving for fuel economy than you've learned, John. You're still smarting from your inability to back up your supposed 50% mpg gain (31 mpg to 46 mpg, lest you forget) from a WAI/HAI.

My point in posting my no-mods gains is not to brag. It's to emphasize that most eco-mods are mouse milk (projects like Basjoos' AeroCivic and Darin's Metro excepted) compared to the massive FE gains achievable by simply driving smarter. It's not my fault that you have an inability to analyze facts, and an ego problem that results in personal attacks on people who disagree with you.

Mods increase the efficiency of better driving techniques

[spotaneagle]

Originally Posted by Project84

ROFL!!

There is a small entertainment factor that also provokes me...

I'm not "smarting" from an inability to back anything up... I hardly tried to back it up. I simply don't care whether YOU among the other 300 active users here, are the only one calling my bluff. We (about 5 of us) were trying to get it through your thick head that lots and lots of people have tested and shown great results using the HAI. You want to deny it forever, that's all on you. It doesn't bother me one bit... I'll just keep on truckin down the road, saving fuel, thanks to the HAI.

The scientific logic of the mathematical equation heat rise to the 4th blah blah blah.. I don't care. I save gas. I save money. Win/win.

You drive your cars over their EPA #'s and be happy. You don't have to come in and cloud up threads by knocking everyone's experiences telling people there's no way, it's wrong, it didn't happen, it's not possible.

About most eco-mods being mouse milk... who cares! We're not asking you to drink it! If I want to put a resistor in my IAT sensor, is that hurting you? If I inflate my tires to 80psi when the sidewall is rated at 34, are you going to cry?

If I had a friend with either of your cars I'd take live video for you of a test loop, driving like normal people drive, and show you that your EPA "bragging rights" are a joke. You've never mentioned whether or not you actually drive "mixed" either, although that's what you compare your MPG to.

I'm taking my usual trip to Cleveland in a few weeks, any requests before I go? Anything at all? I'll change whatever you want but leave the HAI and I bet you i'll still get 6 or 7mpg over EPA highway.

hmm i hope i didnt steer him wrong by lobbying for wheels spacers over optimum alignment lol

[FrugalFloyd]

You've heard the term "caveat emptor?" The difference between a fool and a rich man is the fool isn't skeptical enough to ask questions before he gives his money away.

When someone makes claims (whether credible or outrageous), I want to see good proof supporting those claims. You may not think there's any harm in adding an IAT resistor. That's probably what Steve McQueen and Michael Landon thought when they went to Mexico looking for their cancer cures. Truth will stand up under examination. False and weak claims don't.

Do you want me to shut up about my bragging, or do you want to turn this thread into a video presentation of my driving technique? If you want to start a thread questioning my driving, feel free. Just don't muddy this thread with it.

For your upcoming Cleveland trip, run your HAI one direction. Run the stock intake system the other. Drive the same way both directions. Note any traffic, wind, weather differences for us. Report honestly. Enjoy your visit. Drive carefully and safely.

[spotaneagle]

All of my MPG tests have been at the same speed, 70-72mph average, my goal is trying to show what the average impatient driver can gain by not using P&G, but by modifications.

This is one of my main goals here, to prove that by regular driving, cars can greatly increase mpg by changing them to do so, because the average joe doesn't want to spend a lifetime getting to work everyday. People are lazy

but sentra dude, we're all on the right track doing the same thing, two different means to the same end...

[R.I.D.E.]

Some cold hard facts for you Sentra.

Some people live in areas of the country where the benefits of the mods were discussing will be significant, others who live in more temperate climates will not see significant gains.

Any of your driving in 0 degree ambient temperatures?

How about annual precipitation rates?

Monthly average temperatures?

In the Florida Keys, things like radiator blocks and WAI are practically useless.

In many cases those who live in the more tropical areas of the country pay a considerable premium, in many cases above, what other less temperate areas of the country pay as far as the overall costs of living.

Consider the EPA ratings for exhaust emissions for your two cars. On a scale of 1 to 10 your cars are 2 or less, considerably worse than average.

Property taxes here on my 2700 square foot custom built home are 2k a year. In the Bay Area they would probably be 5 times that much, maybe even more.

Sales tax here is 5%, compared to 10% where you live.

Compare state income taxes, and all the rest of the costs of living, and you pay a very high premium for living where you chose to live.

It's not hard to drive a car and average 75% over EPA, if you do not consider all the factors involved, of which the two most significant are ambient temperatures, and average speed. Mountains are also a significant factor.

Right now in Kentucky, there are areas with 2 feet of snow on the ground, and serious grades to consider, as well as temperatures in the close to 0 F at night.

Do you think you could maintain your averages over EPA under those conditions?

Since you are not interested in the topic of this thread, what is the reason for antagonizing those who are just interested in the observations of others who believe there is a benefit?

I find it disingenuous to compare one persons achievement to others, without the same restrictions you used when you told BEEF his testing was no ABA, while your own claims (repeated ad nauseum) are not ABA compared to those who live in more severe climates, but do so at considerably lower monthly cost.

Sure some drivers can get 82 MPG in a Fusion hybrid, if they average 22 MPH, as is claimed on other sites. I can do that in a 30 year old Honda that burns two quarts of oil per tank of fuel.

With no mods.

I can also get 100 MPG in the same car at the same average speed, with mods.

Did you buy your Sentra with full knowledge of the mileage ratings posted on the window sticker, and the ranking of the tons per year of greenhouse gas emissions of those same vehicles?

Frankly, a 95 Buick Riviera (supercharged) would get about the same mileage rating as the SER.

You could use your same caveat emptor to insinuate someone is foolish, while you have made decisions and free choices that demonstrate you yourself have spent money unnecessarily, and made choices that could fall into the same "foolish" category you use in your post.

I believe addressing the issues relevant to cold weather operation can greatly mitigate the effects of cold temperatures. Maintaining my 64.8 MPG average, and my 55 MPG average in my two cars (over 20k each) by increasing the temperature of the coolant entering the engine, and the air entering the engine, makes a significant difference in my average mileage in winter, compared to summer.

The Physics is sound. Proof lies in a comparison of winter and summer mileages of members who have to deal with temperature extremes, with no mods to affect the differences.

In another thread (might even be another forum) you try to attribute all the reductions in injuries and death rates to the Federally mandated safety requirements in newer cars, and you basically call older cars deathtraps.

It seems shortsighted to me to no consider all the changes over the last 40 years that have contributed to reductions in injuries and fatalities per passenger mile driven.

Let me list a few;

Better road design
Radial tires
Divided highways
Better communications
Helicopter ambulances
Fuel injection, which has virtually eliminated the hesitation in carbureted engines that can cause you to stall entering the road.
Defibrillators in ambulances.


I can go on and on with improvements that were not "mandated" by the govt and paid for by consumers. Not that I do not think they are an obvious factor and benefit, but I do have to take a step back when you decide that all mandated safety requirements are created or destroyed by a single person.

regards
Gary

[spotaneagle]

Do We Have A Ralph Nader Fan?

[Project84]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Do you want me to shut up about my bragging

With all of my heart.

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

For your upcoming Cleveland trip, run your HAI one direction. Run the stock intake system the other. Drive the same way both directions. Note any traffic, wind, weather differences for us. Report honestly. Enjoy your visit. Drive carefully and safely.

Can't do that... stock airbox is modified in a way that it cannot be returned to OEM. Also, geographically, from Cleveland to Cincinnati is mostly downhill. That will skew the results of testing anyhow. I was offering more along the lines of tires are regular psi, drive a consistant speed, no drafting. That way, when I exceed the EPA #'s that you love talking about so much, you would have no choice but to say, "Oh, ok, your HAI must contribute that addition mileage gain.

[FrugalFloyd]

Lots of white noise, Gary.

In a nutshell, every driver's driving conditions, living conditions, and expenses differ from every other driver's conditions, therefore comparisons are difficult. Agreed.

Any driver can do better by driving smarter. What I said.

WAI works. It should. Show me how well.

[Project84]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Show me how well.

From my gas log if you add up the 6 tanks from the documented 3 trips to Cleveland and divide by 6 to get the average MPG for what is as close to 100% highway as I ever get... keep in mind each of those tanks had some city mileage on there as well, some more than others.... you come up with 37.57 mpg.

So....


My best EVER 100% highway trip before the HAI was 33mpg.

So in mixed weather conditions, and any number of other variables (no certain speed was maintained over these 3 trips to/from Cleveland) taken into consideration, the best I can do is show you that math.

Its a 4.5mpg increase over my previous best, not EPA... its a 6.5mpg increase over EPA's 31 highway rating.


I'm so bored w/ this subject.