Why I was gone (u probably don't care.)

[Project84]

Took a leave of absence from this site and driving for FE because my exhaust broke before my cat and I didn't have the money or time to fix it for nearly 2 months. Well, part of that was lazyness.

So last week I finally replaced the downpipe and even replaced the old muffler that had a hole in it. Pre-exhaust leak, I was getting around a 31 combined 90 day average, during the leak, the best I could pull was around 20.

That being said, I want to stress to any of you who have exhaust leaks to get them fixed ASAP!

As soon as I repaired the leaks I got all my power back, the transmission shifts SO smooth, I'm more relaxed while driving, and I'm back to getting 30+mpg.

The "Satty" is still gulping oil, but that's another issue. 2 quarts per 300 miles now.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Project84

The "Satty" is still gulping oil, but that's another issue. 2 quarts per 300 miles now.

That's 600mpg of oil.

[Project84]

Yeah, pretty ridiculous. I went from changing the oil every 3k miles to changing every 5,500, and now I'm considering pushing that to 7k like the owners manual says. Why would I do that? Well, because every 600 miles it's getting 4 quarts of fresh oil put it, the only thing I'm actually changing when I perform an oil change is the filter. I could reuse the oil since it's probably closer to 50% fresh than 51% used.

But, w/ oil consumption on the rise, at each oil change I do a thorough MMO soak, spark plug clean and re-gap, and Seafoam the brake booster vac. line. I hate to say it but my car (and my maintenance procedures) are probably contributing to the same amount of pollution as 4 other average cars on the road.

[jeep45238]

Originally Posted by Project84

Yeah, pretty ridiculous. I went from changing the oil every 3k miles to changing every 5,500, and now I'm considering pushing that to 7k like the owners manual says. Why would I do that? Well, because every 600 miles it's getting 4 quarts of fresh oil put it, the only thing I'm actually changing when I perform an oil change is the filter. I could reuse the oil since it's probably closer to 50% fresh than 51% used.

But, w/ oil consumption on the rise, at each oil change I do a thorough MMO soak, spark plug clean and re-gap, and Seafoam the brake booster vac. line. I hate to say it but my car (and my maintenance procedures) are probably contributing to the same amount of pollution as 4 other average cars on the road.

Easy fix.

Pull the fuel pump relay. Start the car and let it die.

Pop out the spark plugs, and pour a tablespoon of marvel mystery oil down into the engine and let it sit overnight.

Put some rags over the spark plug holes, turn it over, reinstall your plugs and your fuel pump relay.

It'll take multiple times, but what it's doing is loosening the oil control rings. The saturns don't have much area for the oil to go through and they clog up those rings, seizing their movement. This is very amplified with cheap oil and filters along with extended oil change intervals.

Also change the oil out to Mobil 1 and a good new filter - per Saturn's OEM manuals for oil consumption. It has a lot of detergents in it that will help free them up.

If this gets you nowhere you'll be looking at having to pull the camshafts, lifters, and replacing the valve stem seals. Cheap parts, it'll take a day or so to do if you take your time.

I've got 3 of 'em - none burns any oil at all. 2 run Mobil 1 w/ K&N filters, one runs Royal Purple w/ a K&N filter for a '03 Dodge SRT4 (turbo neon).

If you have any questions about them let me know. I've been working on, modifying, fixing, etc., Saturns and have replaced or rebuilt everything on a Saturn except for a rack and pinion at some point in time.

[Project84]

I've done 2 MMO soaks and 3 Seafoam treatments and my oil consumption has fluctuated, but never got much better. In fact, I think the oil consumption has gone UP since my last MMO soak and seafoam treatment.

I'm not sure I'm fully a believer in the MMO or Seafoam for use on a Saturn. Then again, I've never had great success w/ those products on my other vehicles.

Eventually, I want to pull the pistons/rings in frame and repalce the timing chain assy while I'm at it. I think drilling the pistons for oil relief is the only true fix. I don't get much of a haze on startup, so I'm skeptic of it being the valve stems.


...But you say yours don't burn any oil? How many miles on them? Stock pistons/rings?

[jeep45238]

Originally Posted by Project84

I've done 2 MMO soaks and 3 Seafoam treatments and my oil consumption has fluctuated, but never got much better. In fact, I think the oil consumption has gone UP since my last MMO soak and seafoam treatment.

I'm not sure I'm fully a believer in the MMO or Seafoam for use on a Saturn. Then again, I've never had great success w/ those products on my other vehicles.

Eventually, I want to pull the pistons/rings in frame and repalce the timing chain assy while I'm at it. I think drilling the pistons for oil relief is the only true fix. I don't get much of a haze on startup, so I'm skeptic of it being the valve stems.


...But you say yours don't burn any oil? How many miles on them? Stock pistons/rings?

Drilling more holes in OEM pistons or stepping up to forged aluminum aftermarket pistons (holes already drilled) are about the only permanent solution for it.

I'd agree with you on the valve seals also.

How often are you running Seafoam? I wouldn't recommend doing it all that often if you're running it through a vac. line (I do mine once or twice a year, usually right before an oil change). I don't recommend it period if you're putting it in your oil. I do it purely to help remove carbon buildup. Helps to change the oil shortly after the engine stops putting out smoke under load too

It might help you out a bit if you do the MMO with a few tablespoons, thread the plugs in loosely to help prevent evaperation, and letting it sit over a weekend. I would not make a daily habit out of it, but a bi-weekly sure for a month to see if it improves the oil consumption.

If you're going to pull the rods and pistons, I'd really suggest taking the whole engine out and working on a stand. It's a whole lot easier and faster (experiance speaking) in the long run.

All of the SL2's have stock rings/pistons, never replaced (original factory installed engines and parts). Miles range from 80K miles to 135K miles. My last SL2 had about 200K on it and was just starting to puff on startup. All but one were purchased used, and instantly were started on Mobil 1 oil changes with 3000 mile intervals.

[Project84]

Mine has 146k on stock everything as well.

I only drive about 8k miles per year, so doing the MMO and/or Seafoam at each oil change is roughly once every 6-8 months.

Last time I used MMO, I poured the entire quart down into the 4 cylinders. Cyl. 1 and 3 overflowed, cyl. 2 and 4 just drank it right up, leaving me to think either the rings have mis-aligned, or I've got bigger problems than I hope I do. I did a compression test a few weeks prior but the numbers were botched because I think I ruined my gauge during the wet test. I should probaby get a new one and start over from square one.

So, you do a few tablespoons of MMO in each cylinder each weekend? Then just tighten the plugs and drive it like that?

EDIT: I've never used the seafoam "until the engine stops smoking under load".......mine has always just smoked to high hell until I decide to shut it off and change the oil. Yikes... didn't know it should "stop smoking under load"

[IndyFetch]

I've heard a lot of people have ridiculous oil consumption with the older Saturn Twin-Cammers.

[bobc455]

The MMO and seafoam are both top-end cleaners, right?

I used an oil system cleaner and my oil consumption dropped from 1 qt/1000m to 1qt per 3500 miles. I did this because I heard that the oil rings get carboned up & gunky, so I theorized that a good oil system cleaner might free up the oil ring. Sure enough, it worked.

-Bob C.

[jeep45238]

Originally Posted by Project84

Mine has 146k on stock everything as well.

I only drive about 8k miles per year, so doing the MMO and/or Seafoam at each oil change is roughly once every 6-8 months.

Last time I used MMO, I poured the entire quart down into the 4 cylinders. Cyl. 1 and 3 overflowed, cyl. 2 and 4 just drank it right up, leaving me to think either the rings have mis-aligned, or I've got bigger problems than I hope I do. I did a compression test a few weeks prior but the numbers were botched because I think I ruined my gauge during the wet test. I should probaby get a new one and start over from square one.

So, you do a few tablespoons of MMO in each cylinder each weekend? Then just tighten the plugs and drive it like that?

EDIT: I've never used the seafoam "until the engine stops smoking under load".......mine has always just smoked to high hell until I decide to shut it off and change the oil. Yikes... didn't know it should "stop smoking under load"

Well, none of the cylinders can hold a full quart (32oz). At the very bottom fo the stroke, the most they can hold is approx. 29 oz. So, you can either have 2 cylinders at 29oz capacity and 2 at approx. 3oz, or get them all mid-stroke for approx 14.5 oz capacity per cylinder. It's a 116 CID engine

Put in the MMO, let it soak with the plugs hand tight, remove the plugs, and with no fuel going to the engine turn the engine over to expel most of the fluid (you MUST pull the fuel pump relay before you even start this - there is enough residual pressure in the lines for the engine to run 10-15 sec without a fuel pump). Make sure to have a rag over the holes to catch the splatter. If you just crank and fuel is entering the engine, you have a huge fire potential.

AFTER you do that, put the plugs back in (after checking the gap of course ), put the fuel pump relay back in, and drive. It'll probably be doing more blue smoke burning than usual. The reason why you do this is to prevent damage from hydrolock. If you were to put a whole bottle in, let it soak a day or two, and drive the cylinders where it hadn't completely drained out would probably suffer bent valves and rods.

With SeaFoam it stays in there until the white smoke is gone. I'll usually let it idle in the driveway with a fan blowing near the tailpipe to keep it from going back into the garage. I've had people ask if they need to call the fire dept. before If I just drive it without idling it, drivers going through the cloud are pretty much blinded and it's a huge safety issue. It usually takes 3-5 miles to stop smoking under load. When it stops smoking at idle there's generally a puddle of carbon buildup right under the tailpipe. I'd say it works pretty good.

THEN I change the oil to make sure that anything it breaks loose isn't stuck floating around in my engine for who knows how long. That'd be like trying to clean a sewer system of sludge and letting people continue to flush toilets Pretty counter productive.


*EDIT*
Looking at your pictures, you may also want to replace the line going from your intake tube to the valve cover. Looks like it's starting to crack at the valve cover. It's a few bucks to get the real deal from Saturn, as well as the manifold-to-pcv one, but I'd reccomend getting both of them from Saturn as form molded hoses instead of trying to make one from a parts store supply that'll wind up collapsing under use - and making the PCV system worthless. A good PCV system is a MUST to help prevent big problems down the road.