What would it take to make small cars desirable?

[Snax]

All I'm going to say is that if you have kids, leather is the ONLY way to go. Our last two vehicles had leather and we never fretted over it. Now with cloth seats we see every muddy foot and grimy handprint on parts of the fabric one might think nobody would have reason to even touch.

Ok, maybe I'm *****ing more about kids than cloth.

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by 1993CivicVX

Yaris does 0-60 in 10.8 seconds (106hp from a 1.5 liter)
My old VX with 180,000 miles, crap tires and a terrible start does 0-60 in 12.6 seconds (92hp 1.5liter)

The Yaris gets an EPA of 32mpg.
Mine gets an EPA of 45mpg.

Say what? We're talking 14 years difference here. I thought for sure the Yaris was going to explain away its dismal numbers with a powerful engine.

And the Camry Hybrid gets 34mpg? It don't make sense.

Lets bring truth to your comments ;-)

The Manual tranny Yaris goes 0-60 in 9.3 seconds.

You CANNOT compare your EPA rating with the new revised EPA rating. Apples and oranges. Using the "old" EPA rating, the Yaris is 34/40, and combined 36.

In real world driving, I get 44.5 highway, and 39 city in my 2007 Yaris.

[DarbyWalters]

Originally Posted by Colby

I love the mileage of my '82 Luv Diesel, but if it weren't for bio (soon to be waste veggie) I would not own it. The smell of pump diesel is one of the most offensive odors in existence. It makes me nauseaus. Even the smell of the bio is not that great...

Seriously, I think the foul stench of burning diesel is a much bigger problem than most people realize.

You are much safer breathing in diesel fumes than gas fumes...so I guess you think gas smells better? New diesels do not put out the "odor" or "smoke" of the old days...70s-80s-90s. Not really going to get into a political arguement on the subject but I will say that CO2 is a bigger immediate problem than NOx. New ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) burns much cleaner and allows other methods of further cleaning emmisions.

Honestly, a Diesel Hybrid makes the most sense overall...

[SVOboy]

I wouldn't consider CO2 an immediate problem, especially since you can't really judge the difference in # of people getting X disease and such like you can with particulates...but, yakno, whatever.

I think they need to be fun and exciting, because even if cars become ridiculously expensive, people will still drive SUVs, that's just how it is. If only we had public transit, the issues wouldn't be about size so much as amount,

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Yeah... But the problem w/ associating current passenger car diesels to health problems from particulates is that most of the problems come from the trucking/off-road/marine apps, that have no emissions controls at all. In fact, they're so dirty, that they're complaining about retrofitting their fleets in CA because of the (~$7 billion worth of...) public health risks, and the requirements are more or less what auto manufacturers had to meet in the mid/late 70s, w/o the two decades of tech progress we've had now!

The biggest problems we've had wrt diesel emissions have been because industry stymies any attempts at comprehensive emissions systems. However imo, now that CARB, and likely the EPA in the future, are actually cracking down on the worst polluters, we'll probably see a decent comparable diesel emissions system sometime in the next decade or so.

And... Last but not least, particulate emissions are local, at least compared to global Carbon emissions. There's also been a bit on gasoline vehicle emissions at load and those that aren't maintained.

Newport, R.I. -- Scientists taking real-world emissions samples from cars on the road and in laboratory test centers are finding that gasoline cars emit a lot more particulate matter (PM) than popularly believed.

New data show that PM number emissions from modern gasoline cars--including "normal emitters at high speed and load" and cars with "worn engines with high oil consumption"--may "equal or exceed diesel [PM] levels," according to real-world vehicle testing by University of Minnesota's renowned combustion particle scientists.

Why this could be a big problem: Gasoline PM and semi-volatile organic compound (SVOC) emissions can be equally (or even more) "toxic" than diesel PM, as peer-reviewed, published science studies now show (see Diesel Fuel News 9/2/02, p1).

Which makes sense imo, since the power output per liter is so much higher for gassers, so even if they do meet emissions at whatever the load level is required by the EPA, given how much more power and heat per unit displacement they make, I don't think it's unlikely that their emissions could change by a related amount.

[SVOboy]

Oh no, I wasn't bashing diesel cars, I was just saying that I think CO2 is a MUCH more long-term concern than NOx is...in India 40k deaths a year are blamed on un/loosely regulated 2 stroke emissions, ...I'm sure lawnmowers pollute more than most newer diesels...

[rh77]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

I wouldn't consider CO2 an immediate problem, especially since you can't really judge the difference in # of people getting X disease and such like you can with particulates...but, yakno, whatever.

I think they need to be fun and exciting, because even if cars become ridiculously expensive, people will still drive SUVs, that's just how it is. If only we had public transit, the issues wouldn't be about size so much as amount,

I heard this morning on NPR that public transit ridership is up 15% in the Quad Cities -- and not due to gas prices. Double-digit increases are rare. Maybe a wave of "Green Consciousness" is spreading into the Midwest, even - ya know?

RH77

[SVOboy]

Interesting...I read a thing once talking about how only 6% of japanese public transit users have green motivation but 25% of US ones do, and the article was all woohoo BS about it, and I was thinking "but 47% of japanese commute entirely by public transit, and only 3% of americans do, that there are actually more japanese who care...not to mention the 10% that ride their bikes!"

But that's very interesting to hear about...if only we could make it more convenient! How's the KC PT doing?

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Oh no, I wasn't bashing diesel cars, I was just saying that I think CO2 is a MUCH more long-term concern than NOx is...in India 40k deaths a year are blamed on un/loosely regulated 2 stroke emissions, ...I'm sure lawnmowers pollute more than most newer diesels...

Well ya, 2 stokes are worse than even oil burners, because they're actually built to burn oil.

[slurp812]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Oh no, I wasn't bashing diesel cars, I was just saying that I think CO2 is a MUCH more long-term concern than NOx is...in India 40k deaths a year are blamed on un/loosely regulated 2 stroke emissions, ...I'm sure lawnmowers pollute more than most newer diesels...

Um, I don't post #'s for my 2 stroke street bike. I bet my car gets better FE!