Using magnets to improve fuel economy

[Matt Timion]

I started reading today about the use of magnets to increase fuel economy.

http://www.eureka.findlay.co.uk/archive_features/Arch_Automotive/magnets/Magnets.htm
http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm

(the last site there throws up a giant red flag as the first thing they claim is that the engine wastes 91% of it's energy on friction and other things. That just isn't true.)

I'll admit it, I'm about as skeptical as they come. Carl Sagan is my hero, and I tend to believe the old saying, "If it's too good to be true, it probably is."

Still, i'd hate to discount every theory just because it's too simple, or just too good to be true.

there are a few good minds on this site. Tell me why this wouldn't work, or why it would. It seems to me that most of the "test" cars are old 80s cars that do not have fuel injection. Would installing these on a fuel injected car have little to no effect?

[Flatland2D]

I was reading a paper last night about hydrogen production and it said cars are about 14% efficient "wells to wheels". They are comparing the potential energy stored in the fuel with the kinetic energy of the car. I don't think the number is far off from that perspective.

Their statement about "you pay more energy than you obtain" is true of any energy conversion process. If you got more energy out than you put in, it would be an over-unity device that is not posssible by the laws of thermodynamics.

I didn't take the time to read every word, but it sounds far-fetched. I'm not saying it wouldn't work - I'd be eager to test it out myself just for the heck of it, but I'm not getting their explanation of how it works.

Also their results section is very poorly done. It doesn't sound like they used any kind of standardized test among all the vehicles, and they don't even list what cars they tested. It just says things like "1970 Toyota".

[Matt Timion]

I remember reading elsewhere that cars were more like 60% efficient. I can't remember where I read that. Then again, energy is lost at each gear, bearing, and anything else that turns. Let's not forget the massive amounts of energy lost when the explosion occurs in each cylinder.

Anyway, here is another site i found:

http://www.smartcar-owner.co.uk/Low%20Cost%20Magnetic%20Fuel%20Saver.htm

I'd be very interested in testing this before my engine swap.

one thing i hate about these sites is the blatant disregard for proper testing proceedures. Most of their results are anecdotal at best. "I noticed the car was more peppy." yeah, okay. I'm also certain that 5-8% increase in mpg would probably fall within a statistical range of error. Hell, I vary up to 10% of mileage each time I fill up based on how much I idle and how many red lights I hit.

yet another reason to test these things using proper testing proceedures. I'll sign up for this one. In fact, I think that this would be a very good experiment to conduct, and easy to conduct.

I'll do this one right after acetone. Look for this in the experiment section very soon.

[Flatland2D]

60% might be true for energy generated by the engine that is converted to kinetic energy. A lot of energy is lost (lots and lots of heat) in the production of that engine energy that the true efficiency of the car from gas to wheels is much less.

Yeah, I don't like qualitative reports of results, too. 5 to 8% increase in mpg or performance is so small you won't be able to feel the difference. And why can't they say they got exactly 6.23% better, rather than a spread of 5 to 8%. That's a spread of 160%.

So I can entertain the theory that these molecules line up in a magnetic field, but what is stopping them from going right back to their non-uniform orientations after passing through the field? In fact the law of entropy states that everything will move towards a state of disorder.

[Matt Timion]

If you think that device is crazy, check out our sister site: www.gassavers.net

That's right, a $300 sticker that you put on your gas tank. It will shoot holograms into your gas tank, altering the chemical nature of the gas. It increases mileage and decreases emissions.

[dfoxengr]

the magnets are neodymnium (sp.?) they have been around for like 30 years, and people say that they increase mileage. i have never seen any evidence suppporting it though.

[SVOboy]

If they are neowhatev I can't spell then it would seem like there's not so much special about them. I have heard a lot about them but I have a feeling I saw some consumer reports or government thing saying it was crap. Lemme look for it.

[SVOboy]

<a href=http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=12382 target=_blank>Here it is</a>

I think this is what I saw about it before. Seems they work a bit. For some cheap magnets (if you get them yourself) that seems like not a bad thing. The little 1 mpg things add up, and on my 40 mpg car I would prolly see 1.5-2 instead of what the truck got.

[dfoxengr]

they are actually relatively expensive magnets. lol. better to buy them from harbor freight as sold to increase mileage, than to get them on your own

[SVOboy]

I just remember looking though some physics thingy for magnets. I must be thinking of somethign different, haha, oops.