Used car idea

[GasSavers_Scott]

I'd go Cavalier, Saturn, Honda, or Nissan. My old Corolla electrically died. My Focus is a nightmare of non-stop oil leaks, water leaks, and electrical problems. The Prism is the same thing as a Corolla. My Mercury Topas was the same thing as an Escort, non-stop problems.

I myself am tired of the whole game, Im looking for an air cooled VW, with only a set of points and a carburetor to worry about. I'm so tired of standing in front of a modern car that wont run. I have been searchinhg for the perfect car for 30 years, still looking.

[GasSavers_Pete]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I thought the reason belts are used is that they are more efficient. That efficiency isn't worth it to me but it's something to consider.

HolyCow,

The actual efficiencies are about the same for both but the gains (from the car builders aspect) come from easier (read cheaper) packaging and some internal dampening (to keep weird harmonics out of the equation) for a belt over chain.

Chains need a supply of lubricant and a sealed environment ; belts run dry and can run in free air but need some sort of cover for keeping people's fingers out of the danger zone.

Belts can be contaminated by oils and fuels and can also take a "set" if they stay in one spot for along time although this usually vanishes with running.
They are also more sensitive to temperature extremes

Both require replacement but belts generally speaking more frequently than chains.

Peter.

[theholycow]

Thanks for clearing that up! Interesting.

The only question I have left:

Originally Posted by Pete

Both require replacement but belts generally speaking more frequently than chains.

...I've never seen a maintenance schedule that specifies replacement of timing chains. The only time I've heard of replacing one is in a model with plastic gears that wear out, where it makes sense to replace the chain while you're at it.

[GasSavers_Pete]

HolyCow,
There are a few makers requiring chains to be replaced I am aware of:
Mercedes Benz on their older cars and at one point Citroen and Jaguar on the 12 cylinder cars.

How many owners doing their own servicing actually followed that advice I have no idea.

The Mercedes was an odd measuring system requiring the angle of degree of difference between the drive sprocket and the driven sprocket to be measured and if the specified measurement was exceeded then the chain should be changed.
I am guessing this was to save having to remove and replace the chain unless it was necessary but I really don't know for certain.

The Jaguar V12 had a really long chain which was , at the time of the engine's introduction ,the longest in the industry. that was fine but even a small amount of wear and the chain stretch was well beyond the adjuster's ability to cope and the chain needed replacing lest it take on a life of it's own and start jumping about.
The chain went from the crank up to the overhead cam on one side , back to an idler in the valley of the vee then up to the cam on top of the other head and, finally back to the crank.
Hardly surprising they had tensioner and adjuster
issues.
The Citroen was a real lash up with a cheap and nasty adjuster when was also intolerant of any amount of slackness in the chain.
They usually just failed and took out the chain as well.

No wonder so many makers went over to belts!

Peter.

[tradosaurus]

I had my son wash, claybar, wash again, polish and then wax (using a dual action orbital polisher) the Mazda.

I had him use 2000 grit sandpaper and remove most of the water spots on the miata wheels I had installed. He then polished the wheels.

I had him then use some Meguiars interior cleaner and wipe down the insides of the car.

I cleaned the engine compartment before I started all the maintenance work too.

Now the car really shines.

Last but not least I bought and installed two Deer Alerts to hopefully minimize another accident.

[guest001]

Originally Posted by tradosaurus

After I part out my 2001 Honda Accord I'm going to be in the market for a used vehicle.

I will be able to spend $3,000 so I am going to be diligent in my search since time is not an issue.

The must have characteristics of the car I buy will be:
1) Manual transmission
2) 4 cylinder
3) 150,000 miles maximum
4) Timing belt must have been changed
5) Notes or receipts of claimed repairs or maintenance.
6) 1st of 2nd owner car.

I've narrowed down my car list in order of preference:
Honda Civic
Mazda Protege
Saturn LS1 or LS2
Nissan Altima
Hyundai Elantra
Ford Focus ZX3

Any other input?

I do vehicle inspections daily at work. Looking at a car I'm thinking how much money I'm I going to have to put in to it? I wouldn't take anyone's word on something like a t-belt or clutch. No receipt or anything, to me that means it wasn't done.

[tradosaurus]

Yes, I agree and a wise statement to avoid future catastrophies.

Of course a good inspection of a car is a must to avoid being a money pit. I got lucky so far on this car.

Usually a one owner is a good bet.

[Spule 4]

Originally Posted by Pete

HolyCow,
There are a few makers requiring chains to be replaced I am aware of:
Mercedes Benz on their older cars and at one point Citroen and Jaguar on the 12 cylinder cars.

How many owners doing their own servicing actually followed that advice I have no idea.

The Citroen was a real lash up with a cheap and nasty adjuster when was also intolerant of any amount of slackness in the chain.
They usually just failed and took out the chain as well.

No wonder so many makers went over to belts!

Peter.

I replaced my Merc's OM617's chain in my 300D, it was an easy job, you fed the new one in off the end of the old one, volia!

The SM-Citroen timing chains where an issue, they did fix it tho by late 1973, not many USDM cars saw the factory fix but got it later. Once done, the motors were good for many (100K +) miles. Otherwise, crap-out city. Did nothing to help Double Chevron at the end of the US sales. Late DS 4 bangers were OK on chains, some of the old TA three main motors did have issues, a friend had to replace one in his 1966 ID19.

Toyota 22Rs, while bomb-proof, do have a chain fault, fail to adjust/re-tension and they would chew through the cover into the coolant and mix oil and coolant.

The PRV V6 Volvo motor (Peugoet 604s and V6 505s never had this issue for whatever reason) was another chain eater, single row (if memory serves) fixed many a 760 and Delorean motor back in the day.

....the infamous USDM Mercedes M116 - 380 V8 with a single row chain for the US market was another chain eater. The fix was a dual row chain...

[GasSavers_Pete]

Spule4,
I often had the feeling it was some sort of weird harmonic resonance problem with some of those engines which was the base problem but I have NEVER heard ANY makers admit to such a thing...at least not in their own engines!

The cutting down from the Maserati V8 to form the early Citroen SM V6 was a real tragedy. A definite silk purse into a sow's ear job that one was.

Peter.

[GasSavers_Pete]

I was having a look recently at Honda's 1.3 engine for the Jazz (Fit I think in the US) and saw it had Morse chain drive not the usual roller chain Honda have used previously.

I was wondering of this was to take the additional load of the iVTEC cam phasing or possibly act as a form of internal damping?

Maybe it just takes up less space and requires less material to house it?

Just thinking out loud here.

Peter.