Toyota yaris - bugging the crap out of me.

[theholycow]

Toyota's website shows more head, leg, etc room for the sedan, but perhaps they've mangled the numbers for marketing purposes.

Your friend with lower MPG in the 5 speed sedan is doing something different from your friend with the automatic liftback. The manual should beat the automatic if conditions and driving style were similar.

[R.I.D.E.]

The two door didn't fit me well. Neither did the Prius. Couldn't get the seat to go far enough back for my legs. The 4 door Yaris was better, got to drive one when my Corolla was in for alignment problems.

I think the only car I have had to move the seat foreward on, that I can remember, was the Del Sol.

regards
gary

[civic lover]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I checked toyota.com. The sedan is slightly lighter than the liftback (makes sense because it doesn't have as much sheet metal and glass).

Surprisingly, you're right that the liftback has a shorter wheelbase. Why would they do that? Wouldn't it be far cheaper and easier to make them the same?

What's with the Yaris, in fact? The sedan has a little more passenger volume, 30% more cargo space, is lighter, is less tall, less wide, but significantly longer than the liftback.

Toyota's site lists exactly the same EPA ratings for sedan and liftback. Edmunds.com lists the same drag coefficient for both, surprising considering the differences in shape, width, height, and length.

I would say the sedan is the better choice for hypermilers and people looking for the maximum practicality. The liftback only wins if you need to park in ridiculously short spaces, carry bulky items, or look "cool" among your hypermiler friends.

http://www.toyota.com/yaris/specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=108501

where do you find the drag coefficient numbers at edmunds?

[RningOnFumes]

Either your friend with the sedan mt is driving in the city a lot or he's doing something wrong.

My first week of having the car, I made 45 mpgs. This is with no hypermiling skills. I have a sedan 5spd. It wasn't until later that I found out about hypermiling through a Brian, a member of Yarisworld and Cleanmpg. He has a hatch back and I'm trying my best to chase after his numbers. Many of the top mpg drivers of Yarisworld are chasing after his 50- 55 mpg records.

[goofy1]

all i know is from my experience with the interior place. i need the leg room for my long legs and head room for my big head. and they fit all to well and with space to spare in the two door my Brother has then the sedan my friend has. oh btw, they both drive highway and both have 45min to a hour drive to work. I talked with my friend again and i screwed up on the tranny. Forgive me all. But his sedan is a automatic tranny, for some reason i thought it was a stick. Sorry
it wouldn't be my first time screwing up info here. (bad hard drive in the head) but toyota has posted incorrect measurements on their cars before. but hey nobody is perfect

btw the 2 door yaris has more head room then the sedan
38.8/36.7 compared to 39.4/37.9 in the 2 door yaris

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by civic lover

where do you find the drag coefficient numbers at edmunds?

In the link I posted before:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=108501
it says this:

With a coefficient of drag of just 0.29, both the sedan and Liftback slip through the air with ease, promising a quieter ride and greater fuel economy at freeway speeds.

It's the fifth paragraph, just above the bolded heading "Fraternal, not identical twins".

Originally Posted by goofy1

btw the 2 door yaris has more head room then the sedan
38.8/36.7 compared to 39.4/37.9 in the 2 door yaris

Yeah, I just realized, the extra height that I thought would be worse for drag would have to be better for headroom.

[dkjones96]

EPA testing is done on a dynamometer. They capture exhaust emissions and 'weigh' the CO2 to calculate fuel usage.

About it being cheaper and easier to make them have the same wheel base. It doesn't matter because it's FWD and two different chassis. If they were RWD then having two sized cars means more drive shafts and more cost. Since everything is up front on this car it's easy to make the different chassis work with the same engine. Like the Rav4 v6 and the Avalon v6.

[JanGeo]

Tell you one thing about the sedan - I drove my friends and when I turned around to look out the rear window I banged the back of my head on the handle above the door . . . it's a little tight in there compared to my xB.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by dkjones96

EPA testing is done on a dynamometer. They capture exhaust emissions and 'weigh' the CO2 to calculate fuel usage.

I have to believe they find a way to calculate in aerodynamic drag, or else there would be no reason to design cars with better drag.

Oddly, fueleconomy.gov doesn't say anything about it, but I did find something.
http://www.imakenews.com/alanbyervol....cfm?x=b11,0,w

Driving at higher speeds increases aerodynamic drag (wind resistance), reducing fuel economy. The new EPA tests account for aerodynamic drag up to highway speeds of 80 mph, but some drivers exceed this speed.

Since everything is up front on this car it's easy to make the different chassis work with the same engine.

I wasn't talking about how the engine fits, just that having more parts in common increases the economy of scale. It's cheaper to build two identical undercarriages than two different ones, and the same can be said of other body parts.

[dkjones96]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I wasn't talking about how the engine fits, just that having more parts in common increases the economy of scale. It's cheaper to build two identical undercarriages than two different ones, and the same can be said of other body parts.

If this were trucks(body on frame), like the Tacoma and 4Runner, then yes, it is cheaper to manufacture one frame and put a different body on each, but these cars are unitized body so if anything is different at all between the chassis(basically anything more than leaving out a couple of mounts or changing some fender and grill stuff) they have to make a new line for it.

The Civic Sedan and Coupe are the same way. The sedan is 106.3 and the coupe is 104.3. the same suspension can bolt to both(usually a little different because of weight) it's just that they are moved a bit.

Plus, the liftback design lends itself to structural integrity issues that the sedan doesn't have to deal with. Ford has a line for the Mustang coupe and the Mustang convertible chassis. Same car essentially but just removing the roof means the chassis needs redesigned so it doesn't twist to pieces when the car is floored.

In that example however, the wheelbases are exactly the same but I don't know if we can lend that totally to drive train manufacturing simplicity as the focus coupe and sedan share the same exact wheelbase. I think the focus might be just a simpler design approach though because the coupe isn't a lift/hatchback design they can just make the door bigger and move the b-pillar back to make a 2-door like honda without a lot of work.