The amazing gas mileage blunder

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Minicity

My team of smurfs does though. Sadly, they don't exactly invoke much fear...... or damage either.

Smurf-Fu, eh?

I saw a movie the other day called "Kung Fusion". It was kinda funny. I don't know what language it was originally in, but it was dubbed to Spanish (on Telemundo) and I didn't understand it...but it still managed to make me laugh.

[R.I.D.E.]

Understand this which is most important. We are seeing the public reject current auto manufacturing products.

Read the EPA hydraulic hybrid documments. The improvements are not rocket science. Most of the projections are from 2004 and earlier.

Any car will get better mileage with a lower CD, less rolling resistance, and lowest possible frontal area.

My 94 VX's mileage dropped over 10% just from changing the tires.

Give that same car the aero of Basjoos design, and the equal of the original low rolling resistance tires. You have 60+ MPG, using 15 year old technology.

Add 15 years of refinement and where would it be, and thats a 5 passenger sedan.

I would even be willing to bet that with the current 10% ethanol mix of the fuel available here, the same Federal emissions VX would have passed the California specs that were fairly constant for almost 10 years. In other words one of the core emeissions issues was the fuel, not the car itself.

Now add an integral starter alternator, so it never has to idle. All my mileage was achieved without any engine off operation. That would improve mileage by at least 10 %.

Now add preheat and block heating to reduce winter mileage losses.

Now add a simple rear wheel only regenerative, in wheel drive, like my current design. The add a cruising engine on engine off replenishment of the accumulator to allow pulse and gliding of the engine while maintaining constant speeds up to 65 MPH.

I am not even talking about a series hybrid, when the powertrain system becomes a dedicated hydraulic hybrid, regardless of the engine or motor used for primary propulsion.

You have just built the fabled 100 MPG car, and it could be reality in 12 months ladies and gentlemen.

No brag, just fact.

regards
gary

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

Understand this which is most important. We are seeing the public reject current auto manufacturing products.

Read the EPA hydraulic hybrid documments. The improvements are not rocket science. Most of the projections are from 2004 and earlier.

Any car will get better mileage with a lower CD, less rolling resistance, and lowest possible frontal area.

My 94 VX's mileage dropped over 10% just from changing the tires.

Give that same car the aero of Basjoos design, and the equal of the original low rolling resistance tires. You have 60+ MPG, using 15 year old technology.

Add 15 years of refinement and where would it be, and thats a 5 passenger sedan.

I would even be willing to bet that with the current 10% ethanol mix of the fuel available here, the same Federal emissions VX would have passed the California specs that were fairly constant for almost 10 years. In other words one of the core emeissions issues was the fuel, not the car itself.

Now add an integral starter alternator, so it never has to idle. All my mileage was achieved without any engine off operation. That would improve mileage by at least 10 %.

Now add preheat and block heating to reduce winter mileage losses.

Now add a simple rear wheel only regenerative, in wheel drive, like my current design. The add a cruising engine on engine off replenishment of the accumulator to allow pulse and gliding of the engine while maintaining constant speeds up to 65 MPH.

I am not even talking about a series hybrid, when the powertrain system becomes a dedicated hydraulic hybrid, regardless of the engine or motor used for primary propulsion.

You have just built the fabled 100 MPG car, and it could be reality in 12 months ladies and gentlemen.

No brag, just fact.

regards
gary

I think all of that is quite common sense.

Stuck any 50-60 HP engine in any car and you will also see great MPG. That brings just to the human factor... general population dont like car that are slow as balls...and it gets worst as you put more people in it.

The whole point of hybrids is that you still have as much power (and torque) and good MPG, so it has broader appeal to everybody.

[R.I.D.E.]

Thats the whole point, its all common sense, with one exception.

People equate hybrid with lackluster performance, expensive, and complicated.

That is all wrong.

With capacitive hydraulic storage you have 1000 horsepower seconds of energy, sitting still with the engine not running.

The instant you press on the accelerator pedal that energy is available at all 4 wheels, as well as any you might want to add by running the engine.

Now lets say your engine is capable of 120 HP seconds of sustained production. That gives you an additional 1200 horsepower every 10 seconds.

Now you have a total of 2200 horsepower for ten seconds available for acceleration.

You limiting factor for acceleration is the ability of all 4 wheels to maintain traction.

What do you think the 0-60 time of a 2200 pound sedan would be if you could apply 400 horsepower to all 4 wheels for 4 seconds?

regards
gary

[DRW]

wild guess, probably around 2.87635 seconds.

0-60 mph Calculator - 060calculator.com

[R.I.D.E.]

Now consider this, the sedan is 25% lighter than another comparable sedan. Say a Nissan Maxima 1999 model, at 2800 pounds. Ride quality is the same. All accessories are available. It costs $19000 and averages 60 MPG.

Merry Christmas to all of you, and I hope you share my dream. Maybe it will come true in the next few years.

In fact I doubt it could accelerate to 60 quite that quickly unless you had some really good tires.

regards
gary

[DRW]

The realities of marketing won't let too much advancement enter the market that quickly. We're still waiting for plug in hybrids, fer crissake. Once we have plug in hybrids for a few years, maybe as long as one model cycle, then we'll see the next advancement, like the Chevy Volt. If demand is great enough to hasten advancement, then the next big thing will enter the market sooner, but at a higher cost. Then we wait for the new technology to trickly down to lower price levels.

To bypass all of that waiting, new tech can enter the market through small a independent company, similar to what Testla has done with their electric roadster. The Aptera comes to mind, too. Has a working prototype of the hydraulic hybrid been built yet?

[R.I.D.E.]

The evolution of battery technology has been waiting for the breakthrough for over a century.

The best example is the NASA flywheel battery, 150,000 RPM, magnetic bearings, in a perfect vacuum. Fairly light, 10 KWH capacity, and exorbitantly expensive.

Even the lead acid battery of 100 years ago (and even longer) is still a contender.

The real revolutionary change in vehicles will be more similar to the Model T or the original Volkswagen. Both were vehicles that focused on simplicity, ease of manufacture, cost and reliability.

The simplicity of a series hydraulic hybrid design will parallel that of the two previously mentioned milestone vehicles. Inexpensive, totally reliable, easy to manufacture vehicles, that will dramatically change the World's utilization of transportation.

In doing so, the hydraulic hybrid will also go a long way towards addressing many of the green issues we face today.

It may also become fact that batteries and electric motors will provide the non reversible power source for hydraulic hybrids in the future. For the present and forseeable future that will not be the case, since we are still waiting for the breakthrough battery technology that will solve the energy density situation.

It may be that a combination of battery electric and hydraulic powertrain actually becomes the standard at some future date, however in the interim the hydraulic powertrain platform allows such evolution to compete without waiting for any breakthrough.

A charged acumulator adds power capacity on initial operation, with battery-electric replenishment of accumulator storage, to prevent the high loads associated with acceleration as well as the high charge rates in regeneration.

regards
gary

[theholycow]

Hmm....so maybe an accumulator that can be pre-charged (by hooking up to a hydraulic pressure hose or just driving onto a powered dyno-like roller to wind up the car), with batteries for portable supplemental power. Interesting.

[R.I.D.E.]

The HH platform allows any fuel consuming energy conversion power source to be added to the system.

A plug in electric unit for local PHEV operation, as well as a liquid fuel consuming power unit for extended range operation. Power modules would be interchngeable, which makes a lot more sense than carrying both around all the time.

Separating the powertrain platform from the non reversible power source, makes direct comparison of various power sources easy. It also allows for individual development of various power source configurations to be commpared directly, with improvements in any power source to be incorporated into the existing vehicle without the necessity to replace the whole vehicle.

Even to the point where if you are one who believes in exercise, you could charge the accumulator with human power. Why not make the effort expended in exercise actually provide some useful purpose. It would also make running out of fuel a thing of the past.

I know when I was young I could push a car up to about half the speed I could run. Imagine how fast you could "push" a car if you were riding in the vehicle and adding energy to the system, with the vehicle already in motion.

I am not trying to say you could replace the engine, but you could certainly supplement the engines power, as well as make sure the vehicle was never stranded due to lack of fuel.

The list of imaginitive vehicles becomes an interesting exercise in thought, when you consider that very lightweight vehicles could be built with reasonable creature conforts, for countries that have no means of financial resources for current designs.

Accumulator capacities are now in the range of 50 KW per gallon, with better containment vessels doubling that capacity.

Exercising at a .10 HP rate for 5 minutes would give you 30 HP of accumulator energy. Imagine what that would do in a fairly lightweight bicycle when you can continuously add power. No electrical outlet or external charging necessary.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

regards
gary