Stations that sell E10 (read: Stations to avoid)

[JanGeo]

Do I need the lubricants and why? The use of E85 stimulates the acid formations of formic acid (HCOOH), acetic acid (C2H4O2) and acetaldehyde (CH3CHO). This products cause corrosion and our newly introduced E85 lubrication conversion kit will stop acid attacks cold in their tracks.
We can also recover 6-17.5% of the fuel economy lost due to the use of E85 and that's got to be one of the biggest wins overall. You can then have your cake and eat it too!!

[thisisntjared]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

We can also recover 6-17.5% of the fuel economy lost due to the use of E85 and that's got to be one of the biggest wins overall. You can then have your cake and eat it too!!

how? well its not like we have a choice....

[JanGeo]

It was a quote from their website - looks like another additive at a high price KA-CHING!

[Bunger]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

Do I need the lubricants and why? The use of E85 stimulates the acid formations of formic acid (HCOOH), acetic acid (C2H4O2) and acetaldehyde (CH3CHO). This products cause corrosion and our newly introduced E85 lubrication conversion kit will stop acid attacks cold in their tracks.

The only real time those acids can be formed is if water is introduced into the fuel system and your engine is still warming. While it is a very real possibility, I think people are going a little overboard worrying about the possible negative side effects. I'm not saying that E85 is the end all, be all of fuels, but being able to have an independant, renewable fuel sourse for our vehicles, is a big step forward.

[GasSavers_DaX]

Originally Posted by Bunger

being able to have an independant, renewable fuel sourse for our vehicles, is a big step forward.

WORD!

[diamondlarry]

The only real time those acids can be formed is if water is introduced into the fuel system and your engine is still warming.

The problem with E85 is that water doesn't have to be "introduced" into the fuel, it can draw water right out of the air. On a very humid day there would be more than enough water in the air to cause a problem.

[JanGeo]

Byproduct of combustion = H2O

Blowby gets that into your crank oil.

Acids forms - you may want to check your oil more often.

[Robotbeat]

All gas in Minnesota is E10. There are over 200 e85 gas stations over here, and e85 costs much less than gasoline (which is actually e10). It turns out that it costs roughly the same for miles per dollar. That's partly unavoidable, since it's pretty much the same market for both gasoline and fuel ethanol. Ethanol will make a much larger difference in fuel prices once it accounts for about 10% of gasoline in the United States. This won't take that long, since the US ethanol production is 4.5 billion gallons annually, with over 2 billion gallons of production capacity under construction (if you look at past figures, these additions take about one year to complete). That is about a 40% annual production growth. So, at that rate, in about 4 or 5 years, there will be enough ethanol production (~15-25 billion gallons/year) to meet 10% of gasoline consumption in the US.

An increase in fuel supplies will lead to a decrease in fuel prices for all motor fuel types.

Ethanol is a different animal than ethyl (i.e. gasoline). It has less theoretical BTUs per gallon, but it has much higher octane (105 octane for e85, therefore higher compression ratios are possible) and potentially lower cost (per mile) than gasoline. Although it is possible that higher compression ratios can yield a more efficient burn with ethanol than is possible with gasoline, the fact is that gasoline has a higher energy density than ethanol, so mileage will necessarily be less for e85 than for e10. But just because ethanol has lower mileage doesn't mean it isn't an important topic for this site. I mean, if energy density (and therefore miles-per-gallon) were the only important factor, then we all would use diesel fuel, wouldn't we?

Even if you, for some weird reason, don't like ethanol, it isn't going away, and it is part of the future of energy in our country. So I think that you should stop being so anti-ethanol and maybe start to help with learning about the intricacies involved in burning ethanol in an automobile.

[thisisntjared]

my 'weird' reason for not liking ethanol is the loss of mpg... it makes sense to me. the gas stations that sell e10 here sell at the same price as normal gas. there is no savings, except for the fact that i know that the government is subsidizing ethanol, meaning its spending everyones money so that the two cost the same. the only 'positive' aspect of ethanol is that it doesnt come from the middle east.

Originally Posted by Robotbeat

I mean, if energy density (and therefore miles-per-gallon) were the only important factor, then we all would use diesel fuel, wouldn't we?

Even if you, for some weird reason, don't like ethanol, it isn't going away, and it is part of the future of energy in our country. So I think that you should stop being so anti-ethanol and maybe start to help with learning about the intricacies involved in burning ethanol in an automobile.

ok i drive a civic my compression ratio is 9.1:1. i am not changing my compression ratio. i am concerned about energy density AND performance. tell my why i should be pro-ethanol again?

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by thisisntjared

my 'weird' reason for not liking ethanol is the loss of mpg... it makes sense to me. the gas stations that sell e10 here sell at the same price as normal gas. there is no savings, except for the fact that i know that the government is subsidizing ethanol, meaning its spending everyones money so that the two cost the same. the only 'positive' aspect of ethanol is that it doesnt come from the middle east.

ok i drive a civic my compression ratio is 9.1:1. i am not changing my compression ratio. i am concerned about energy density AND performance. tell my why i should be pro-ethanol again?

I think I have to agree with you thisisntjared. My weird idea would be that I don't like the idea of paying more and getting less. What makes it even more iritating is that the people telling us that alcohol is so good fail to mention this. I think if they would come right out and admit it publicly I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.