Shell's Nitrogen Enhanced Gasoline.

[KU40]

Originally Posted by thisisntjared

it was my understanding that nitrogen is largely inert. perhaps it expands more than other things in the combustion chamber?

its the n2o that we want

That's what I was thinking. The nitrogen does nothing for the actual combustion, right? So it's just taking up space, perhaps taking up the space that oxygen could be using, which would fuel the fire and create a more powerful explosion. So it would, by that logic, lower fuel economy, correct? Unless it was in some solid form, like fertilizer, which explodes pretty well.

[GasSavers_GasUser]

Originally Posted by thisisntjared

it was my understanding that nitrogen is largely inert. perhaps it expands more than other things in the combustion chamber?

You are right, nitrogen is inert.. That means that when it replaces all the "dead presidents" in your wallet and expands , it won't blow a hole in your butt.

[dkjones96]

Originally Posted by aalb1

No need to datalog unless you want to get specifics with your car. Ethanol content in gasoline should always effect gas mileage. Some more obvious than others. (IE BIG SUV compared to a Civic/Metro) This is why some have always been skeptical of using ethanol as a bio fuel as it doesn't produce as much energy compared to fossil fuels. The EPA does have separate MPG Ratings these Flex Fuel Vehicles (Approx 30% less) http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

Now with 10% ethanol in gas. The difference won't be as drastic but they should still be there.

The reduction in mileage is a result of it being a flex fuel vehicle. If the engine was built to run only E85 it'd get close to the same mileage. The engine needs to be able to run 87 octane gas so they build the engine for that. Putting a fuel that is at 105 octane like E85 is will cause a reduction in mileage even if it was straight gasoline.

[aalb1]

Octane = Detonation Resistance... not Fuel Efficiency!

Though ethanol has the potential to yield more torque/HP because of its detonation resistance, it naturally produces less energy when it is burned. Coming from the Honda-Tuning Scene Ethanol was the big thing because it's like running race-gas on the streets without the cost of race-gas. The biggest issue though was having to upgrade the whole fuel system to handle the added capacity that comes with running ethanol and after that fuel delivery was usually the "lid" that capped them from pushing it further... People who put out the money for 110 octane faced these issues a lot less.

[R.I.D.E.]

125,000 btu per gallon for gasoline.

80,000 btu for E85.

Yes you can run hugher compression in an engine with E85, and yes if it can handle either fuel it will not work really well with E85.

I respectfully disagree with the belief that you can get the same power for a similar volume of each fuel, due to the fact that your engine would have to be 125/80ths more efficient to produce the same power with E85.

Thats better than a 50% increase in engine efficiency.

regards
gary

[dkjones96]

Originally Posted by aalb1

No need to datalog unless you want to get specifics with your car.

Specifics would be what I'm after because I want to know why there is a change.

I don't think you can get exactly the same mileage out of an E85 vehicle only but in building the engine to the fuel you would be increasing efficiency. I guess the only way to know would be to try it...

[thisisntjared]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

I respectfully disagree with the belief that you can get the same power for a similar volume of each fuel, due to the fact that your engine would have to be 125/80ths more efficient to produce the same power with E85.

Thats better than a 50% increase in engine efficiency.

regards
gary

nobody is saying that you get more power for a similar *amount* of fuel, you can make more power by putting in a lot more fuel with e85. i believe its stoich is also significantly lower.

[suspendedhatch]

Nitrogen is plentiful in the air but doesn't react unless combustion temps are abnormally high (or if your engine is diesel). And you'd know it because you'd fail smog on NOx emissions.

[R.I.D.E.]

Originally Posted by dkjones96

The reduction in mileage is a result of it being a flex fuel vehicle. If the engine was built to run only E85 it'd get close to the same mileage. The engine needs to be able to run 87 octane gas so they build the engine for that. Putting a fuel that is at 105 octane like E85 is will cause a reduction in mileage even if it was straight gasoline.

My response was directed at this statement.

It is my understanding that Indy car engines run compressions in the range of 16 to 1 on pure alcohol. It may be E85 now. That is the main reason why flex fuel vehicles get poor mileage. the Nissan Titan is rated at 13 city on regular and 9 on E85.

You could probably improve the 9 MPG with much higher compression but then it probably would not be very good on any pump gasoline.

Now if you were using my variable compression engine design you could adjust the compression to take advantage of the fuels volatility.

regards
gary

[GasSavers_Pete]

Given the air taken in for combustion is 78 % Nitrogen by volume the added amount in gasoline would be fairly small by comparison I suggest.

However nitrogen can help with strong bonds and subsequently strong explosions in mixtures like nitroglycerine and nitromethane.

I have yet to see it here but I will try it when it arrives.

Pete.