measuring the FE (?) of electric cars

[JanGeo]

First if you are talking KWh then keep it in KWH so a gallon of gasoline converted to electricity in an ICE at 25% efficiency yields 9KWh - thinking in terms of BTUs will not work because the ability to convert varies with the fuel source like Diesel converts better and has more BTUs per gallon. Taking the 9KWh of a gallon into account then the T-Zero gets 300/ (50/9) or 54 MPG which is pretty good.

AS far emmissions go yeah the CAR emits NO EMMISSINS other than some heat and there is some heat generated in the vehicle during normal operation and you can recapture it - the battery and motor are usually water cooled. The whole power plant thing is mud at this point since there are losses happening there all the time and they don't work very hard to improve efficiency anyway.

A123 - forgetaboutit until the price comes down - right now they have announced two larger cell designs - one with high power the other with high capacity (AH/Kg) but you can bet we are talking unobtainium.

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

A123 - forgetaboutit until the price comes down - right now they have announced two larger cell designs - one with high power the other with high capacity (AH/Kg) but you can bet we are talking unobtainium.

A123 is not the only company making lithium batteries. Valence Technologies makes large-format batteries and several Chinese companies are making these cells.

The raw materials for LiFePO4 batteries are certainly not "unobtanium" They are Lithium, Phosphorous and Iron. These elements are common and cheap, especially the FePO4 cathode. Older Li batteries used cobalt or nickel cathodes. Theese elements are expensive.

The reason that LiFePO4 batteries are so expensive is that there is a huge demand for them, and not much manufacturing capacity yet. General Motors wrote big checks to Johnson Controls, Saft, A123 to build manufacturing plants. The price of these batteries will come down soon.

[JanGeo]

I hope so but for now try to buy a battery from Valence and let me know how you make out. I have heard of some guys getting them but they also have pretty low capacity and power density but are considered about the safest in the industry. Another one I would like to get is from AltairNano but they also have very low energy density however they have a great calendar life - again no prices posted so probably only available to OEM car builders.
A123 will cost you a large fortune to get enough cells to provide suitable range and they still do not know what the calender life will be although probably pretty good. They provide too much power and not enough capacity anyway - you need higher energy density and higher capacity not super high power output.