Is anybody using a Steam generator on their engines?

[ShadowWorks]

I ask because it seems like a great simple idea, I am currently making up all the prototype plumbing but if anybody has made one and has any tips I'm all ears.

[Sludgy]

Cost and weight issues aside, there is an intractable problem with steam vehicles. Water freezes. How do you keep water from freezing, and then cracking the block or condenser?

[ShadowWorks]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

Cost and weight issues aside, there is an intractable problem with steam vehicles. Water freezes. How do you keep water from freezing, and then cracking the block or condenser?

I think you misunderstood my post, The weight would be small, it would consist of a small boiler welded to the exhaust manifold and the steam would be plumbed directly into the intake manifold, I have spoken to a few steam engineers and they know that steam will split into Hydrogen and oxygen quickly at 1000 degrees Celsius, this is similar I think the the temperature of a internal combustion engine on the power stroke, this would help increase torque ergo power which equals economy? I am open to any ideas and suggestions.

[theholycow]

It could be a worthwhile experiment. However, it's my understanding that sucking heat out of the exhaust will lower EGV and therefore reduce torque. That's very abstract for me so I'm not saying it's a definite idea killer, just that it's worth remembering.

[Daveedo]

One of the IT guys at work is a tuner head (likes to tune his crx with his laptop etc). He was telling me about a well known motor part guy (somebody who has a line of motor parts named after him ) had recently made a 6 stroke motor where the last 2 strokes were water. Sounded interesting. Sorry I don't have any more info for ya but it sounds like thats the trail your onto...sorta. Alot of guys use water injection on turbo motors so they can keep the heat down and really high boost.

Just in case...2stroke motors are what came in older motocross bikes, snowmobiles, etc. They don't sell them in the US anymore. 4strokes are like whats in your car (and the new motocross bikes, quads, etc too).

[theholycow]

2 stroke motors can still be found on small equipment (for example, chainsaws). I didn't know you can't get them on snowmobiles anymore, I thought snowmobiles would always have them.

There have been a few threads about 6 stroke engines:
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=565
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?p=39170
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6777

[Wyldesoul]

You can still get 2 strokes on snowmobiles dirt bikes and small scoots. Mostly just Yamaha stuff. I know the Vino and Zuma scoots are still 2 stroke, and I'm sure they've got small snowmobiles and some small dirt bikes.

[ShadowWorks]

I understand what your thinking about, the steam is water and should reduce combustion temperatures, that what I understood as well but something strange happens which I do not understand at all.

I have made a video so you can see what I'm talking about, I have been looking at patents for weeks and researching this which people have known about for decades.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=w7gCo3tpBaA


This is the patent description below.


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4986223.html

it is worth a read.

The instant system was fixed to a vehicle and was successfully operated. Introduction of superheated steam into the engine gave improved engine performance. Upon examination of the engine, it was found that the engine had been running cleanly, that is, there had been less carbon build up on spark plugs, valves, valve seats and the like than typically occurs in a normal automobile engine. Also, it was observed that the system could be effectively operated by introduction of a few percent of water in relation to the gasoline up to a fifty/fifty water (superheated steam)/gasoline condition. Furthermore, it was observed that on an older engine which had had a severe knock prior to installation of the system, once superheated steam was injected the knock of the engine was eliminated.

Although humid air has been provided by various types of devices to automobile engines, the instant invention involves a method and apparatus which is particularly effective for this purpose. In contrast to a system which directs the total air stream through a large humidifier, the instant invention is compact and easily fitted to an existing internal combustion engine. The water reservoir and feed tanks may be remotely located and need not be in the engine compartment, thus providing a system in which only a few small components need to be in the engine compartment.

An advantage of superheated steam for humidifying purposes appears to reside in the fairly uniform dispersion of the superheated water vapor within the air stream. Though water and gasoline do not mix in a liquid state except in vapors or superheated steam, both water and gasoline mix well together.

One explanation of the effect in an internal combustion engine of moisture injection is that the burn rate of the fuel is caused to be more uniform. If the moisture is present as nonuniformly dispersed droplets in the air stream, then the beneficial effect on the burn rate is not as great. A uniform burn rate is generally equated to improved engine efficiency, e.g. either an increase in power or fuel economy, or both.

In the instant invention, superheated steam, as a gas, would be expected to disperse rapidly and uniformly within the air stream. Thus, the water present is generally present as a gas (steam), as opposed to minute water droplets, uniformly dispersed within the air supply. While water gas distribution within the air stream resulting from superheated steam injection has not been measured to determine uniformity of distribution, the beneficial effects of such injection have resulted in improved engine performance by way of improved fuel economy and reducing knocking.

'



Look at the list of similar patents!

US Patent References:
3665897 STEAM INJECTION DEVICE FOR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE May, 1972 Boyer 183/25B
3980055 Fuel saver and pollution control device September, 1976 Webb 123/25B
3996902 Waste-gas suppressor for internal-combustion engines December, 1976 Ri et al. 123/25B
4114566 Hot fuel gas generator September, 1978 Harpman et al. 123/25B
4122803 Combined internal combustion and steam engine October, 1978 Miller 123/25P
4409931 Combustion and pollution control system December, 1983 Lindberg 123/25P
4515135 Hot fuel gas generator May, 1985 Glass 123/25B
4519341 Heated water-alcohol injection system for carbureted internal combustion engines May, 1985 McGarr 123/25B
4594991 Fuel and water vaporizer for internal combustion engines June, 1986 Harvey 123/25B
4637352 Steam boosted internal combustion engine January, 1987 Green 123/25D
4779576 Water cooled scavenged crankcase type otto internal combustion engine October, 1988 Bidwell 123/25P

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by ShadowWorks

I think you misunderstood my post, The weight would be small, it would consist of a small boiler welded to the exhaust manifold and the steam would be plumbed directly into the intake manifold, I have spoken to a few steam engineers and they know that steam will split into Hydrogen and oxygen quickly at 1000 degrees Celsius, this is similar I think the the temperature of a internal combustion engine on the power stroke, this would help increase torque ergo power which equals economy? I am open to any ideas and suggestions.

1) The weight of a boiler Is not small. Think of a locomotive.

A 1 HP steam engine requires about 10 ft2 of boiler surface. Assuming that you want the steam engine to produce about 10 HP to supplement your gas engine, you need a 100 ft2 of boiler surface. Do the math, and calculate the mass of water and steel in the boiler. You'll be amazed at the weight. Hundreds of pounds.

2) Don't forget the weight of a condenser, unless you want to refill a water tank every 10 miles.

3) Exhaust teperatures of 1000 Celsius do not exist in an exhaust manifold, where you propose to put the boiler. Try 500 C. Water does not dissociate at that temperature.

4) You ignored my main point. How do you keep water from freezing in winter and destroying your steam system?

[ShadowWorks]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

1) The weight of a boiler Is not small. Think of a locomotive.



4) You ignored my main point. How do you keep water from freezing in winter and destroying your steam system?

I think your misunderstanding even more now, this is a steam assist system only, it is not suppose to replace petrol, this is not a massive boiler, only a small one the size of a coffee mug, water freezing is not a problem either as I can add windscreen wash or Benzine to the tank.

I actual don't know the true temperature of the manifold yet as I have no way of measuring it yet.

You tube pulled the sound track as they claimed I stole the music in the background, how ridiculous!