How do I make them understand?

[koffin]

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut

Great! I've been ignoring the "greener than thou" threads on Fred's by judging a thread by its cover, as it were. I've been on Fred's for almost 10 years and have been honing my thread BS detectors since. I presumed there was no reason to view the thread in the link on top so I hadn't...on Fred's.
But on Gassavers.... Well, I clicked on the link to Fred's which dumped me into the middle of some inane, posturing, make the others look bad if you can look good, boast contest. Thanks for pointing out for all the guests and contributors here some of the worst online there.
Fortunately Fred's, like Gassavers, isn't all BS.

Hi Jonathon. I am a recent "convert" of sorts from Fred's too. I am temporarily out of the diesel game. While the tdiclub.com has it moments and, frankly, its members, it is the single most legitimately informative and technical website I have been a part of. I can't defend stubborness and ignorance though.

Now, that all said, I have seen some creative and innovative things. I am excited to see folks getting 60+ MPG from cars not normally thought of as MPG'ers.

LugNut, good to see a familar face here.

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by krousdb

I though of bringing up the 2nd law of thermodynamics but I fear it would fall on deaf ears.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...119107&page=11

The 2nd Law of Thermo has it's share of lawbreakers! Fortunately, Ma Nature doesn't listen!

[badgett]

My dad always told me , " Don't argue with an idiot , You can not win" That sounds about right.

[Silveredwings]

Originally Posted by badgett

My dad always told me , " Don't argue with an idiot , You can not win" That sounds about right.

"Never argue with an idiot. People on the outside may not be able to tell the difference." -Mark Twain

"Never argue with an idiot. He will lower you to his level and beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig." - Mark Twain

"Never wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." -Mark Twain

[rh77]

Over at TDI, they may be biased to VW turbo-diesels and some members may have a hint of jealousy towards other vehicles that are more efficient. I hung out there a while while I was considering a Golf TDI (found it too expensive to maintain and reliability isn't very stellar). Back then it wasn't as heated with this kind of discussion.

Just wait until there's a Diesel-Electric Hybrid. Maybe then they'll get it. Until then, we understand.

RH77
People will accept reality when they want to, no sooner.

Edit: I went over to post in your defense, but they closed the thread. I think the point of this whole exercise is to realize that ONE SINGULAR form of fuel-efficient vehicle is not going to be the answer to our energy crisis. Hybrids have their place as do Diesels (as do E-100's, Bio-D's, Hydrogen, etc). In this instance, the Oklahoma Insight challenge blew their mileages completely out of the water. In addition, I think that oil consumption should be a factor in the Diesel vs. Hybrid arguement as well -- TDIs require a notable amount of synthetic, and changed often. Then the frequent timing belt change is pain, etc. And the deal with recycling hybrid batteries isn't a big deal at all -- batteries are recycled all the time. Sore losers perhaps.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by rh77

In this instance, the Oklahoma Insight challenge blew their mileages completely out of the water. [...] Sore losers perhaps.

I don't think anyone driving a TDI has the desire to drive for hours on end at a ~17mph average just to see how high their mileage figure could be... I mean, to each their own, but imo, if I can bike at the average speed a mileage test is conducted, then why not just bike?

I've had some exchanges with a certain mod on a certain board who shall remain nameless. They don't seem to like anything unless it's a Honda or a hybrid, and that person tried to shoot down every single high mileage stunt done by a diesel, including the 3L Lupo's ~100mpg trip around the world at a ~50mph average speed, and VW's the 1L prototype run that netted ~300mpg by claiming that a ~30M difference in elevation over 150 miles was "cheating", etc... This same mod went on to do fuel economy runs that were pretty high, but at <20mph blistering average speeds. So from what I've gathered there are zealots on both sides that need to STFU!

Otoh, I asked another Insight driver what kind of mileage they got using P&G with a door to door average speed of about 50mph, and they responded by saying it was ~80mpg, which, and here's a shocker, is about the same BTU adjusted mileage that the 3L Lupo got at the same average speed. What a concept, cars that are about the same size, weight, and engine efficiency get about the same mileage! And they are both NOx queens to boot!