GM Sales of Hybrids Miserable

[RightontheMarc]

If you watch the great movie "Who Killed the Electric Car" you'll learn the worst part about GM's Hybrids is that they have stolen the technology of Energy Conversion Devices NiMH batteries by buying a controlling 60% share in the division that makes them, Cobasys. The shares were naively sold to GM with the interest that GM would have the intention of using the batteries to make the Impact EV1 electric cars. Without explanation GM destroyed almost EVERY ONE of the 3000+ electric cars they made without giving the owners a chance to buy them! When some owners demanded a right to buy them they had them arrested!

Here's the kicker. After they destroyed all the EV1s they sold that controlling share of the company to NONE OTHER THAN CHEVRON OIL COMPANY! As a result they force Cobasys to only produce small batteries for things such as laptop applications and a few large batteries for the Saturn faux "Hybrid". They refuse to sell larger batteries to consumers other companies wishing to convert their cars to electric drive or build electric vehicles. Our nation and world is basically being held hostage by a few criminally minded crooks in a handful of multinational corporations who have bought up all the patents or stakes in things and then shelved the technologies so they can't ever be used. They are trying to destroy our economy, our environment and us so they can have short term profits.

I went to an "earth day" festival at Oakland University (Detroit burbs) this weekend. GM had sales people trying to hock their "hybrids" there. The posted gas mileage each one of them got sucked. No one was falling for it and few people were checking them out. Last year when it actually was a science/earth day fair, engineers from Ford and Toyota were there to explain all the gritty details of their technologies. This year as all good things phase into it became more of a commercialized sales fair where all these companies were hocking their products. This year there were no tinkerers, no inventers, no scientists, and less local organic farmers.

I think the Ford Escape is ok for a hybrid as some are getting 36mpg and a couple 40mpg. That's not bad for an SUV. The thing is when people are shopping for a hybrid they are shopping for the MOST gas mileage they can get packaged with the most practical utility. Since it is hard to get more than a few shopping bags in an Insight the Prius would be the winner in that combination.

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by RightontheMarc

Here's the kicker. After they destroyed all the EV1s they sold that controlling share of the company to NONE OTHER THAN CHEVRON OIL COMPANY! As a result they force Cobasys to only produce small batteries for things such as laptop applications and a few large batteries for the Saturn faux "Hybrid". They refuse to sell larger batteries to consumers other companies wishing to convert their cars to electric drive or build electric vehicles. Our nation and world is basically being held hostage by a few criminally minded crooks in a handful of multinational corporations who have bought up all the patents or stakes in things and then shelved the technologies so they can't ever be used. They are trying to destroy our economy, our environment and us so they can have short term profits.

Under Capitalism, no monopoly can last forever, because people find ways to work around them. NiMH batteries were once the sole practical choice for hybrids, but Cobasys has competition from Lithium batteries. Lithiums are going to destroy Cobasys eventually.

Lithium batteries are enormously superior because each LiFePO4 cell has three times the voltage of a NiMH cell, while having better energy density.

What's more, lithiums use iron and phosphorous, incredibly cheap and common elements. NiMH's use expensive Nickel and misch metal.

Every Tom Dick and Harry comapny is beginning to build large format lithiums: Johnson Controls, Saft, A123 Systems, and Valence Technologies. Not to mention several Chinese factories.

Right now, the biggest threat to EVs, PHEVs and HEVs are governments. Governments LOVE the gas tax. It's easy to tax gasoline, but much harder to tax electricity, particularly if you generate your own.

[bowtieguy]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

Right now, the biggest threat to EVs, PHEVs and HEVs are governments. Governments LOVE the gas tax. It's easy to tax gasoline, but much harder to tax electricity, particularly if you generate your own.

many here are quick to blast the oil companies, but fail to address this portion of the equation. hmmm...

[GasSavers_RoadWarrior]

Hmmm if I put my tinfoil hat on and block the jamming signal, I get the idea that they are happy for 20 different vehicle power sources to pop up, so they can throw their hands up in the air and say "Well I guess we'll just have to introduce road useage based charging, and realtime tracking, metered by GPS..." and the sheeple will bleat, "Ye-e-e-s, Ye-e-e-s, and whi-i-i-le you're a-a-at it, you ca-a-an check for supiciously beha-a-a-aving vehi-i-i-cles, in ca-a-a-se there's some of those terrori-i-i-sts up to something."

[cheapybob]

Originally Posted by JESSE69

I think one of the articles says the hybrids are just appearing on the lots. Maybe part of the balme is on the dealers. I visited a Chevy dealer to look at the Malibu and this big dealer didn't even stock an Aveo - so how is GM gonna sell fuel efficient cars when the dealer doesn't stock them? But GM car hybrids suck. And the Tahoe gas is $38,000 vs $52,000 for hybrid - too much markup for a measely hybrid.

As cheap as I am, I wouldn't be caught dead in an Aveo. What an abysmally ugly POS! I assume they made it that ugly on purpose so people would buy their gas hogs instead.

They need to be making a nice looking, 4 or 5 passenger car that sells for under $15,000 and gets 100 mpg or close to it. It would sell like hotcakes. They never even tried.

[cheapybob]

Originally Posted by topher

Saturns are good cars but, there not really GM. They are Opels. Opel seems to be a good car except for the Catera.

No, like he said, Saturn's *WERE* good small cars. With the end of the 1.9L in 2003, the newer ones gave up the MPG's for more power, and are worthless as economy vehicles as a result. They needed to get it to a 1.0L instead. Perhaps they'll wise up and make a 2 cyl, 1.1L Ecotec by cutting the 4 cyl in 1/2 when they get desperate for sales. I'd guess they could get close to 50 mpg highway with that. I had a 1.1L Toyota Corolla back in 1977 that was rated 49 mpg highway, so I know its possible.

[RightontheMarc]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

Under Capitalism, no monopoly can last forever, because people find ways to work around them.

What makes you think we live in a capitalist society? Because you are told we do? Sure some capitalism goes on here (mom & pop/joint or single proprietor businesses) but its mostly feudal oligarchy where corporations own the labor(serfs) that work on their land. The corporations also limit and control the market unfairly. According to the original definition of capitalism, Capitalism is defined as an economic, political and social system based on private ownership of property, business and industry, where the owners are the workers who are engaged in making the greatest possible profits.

Lithiums are going to destroy Cobasys eventually.

Seems like the only lithiums available are the tiny ones. Take the Tesla Roadster for example which has thousands of small batteries to power it. How do you service those when several of them go bad? Lithiums have a high chance of going bad within just a couple years. My laptop is proof of that. The battery lasted about 3 years. The thing is Cobasys was able to build large scale batteries that could have fit in people's cars who could make their own electric cars. Yet being 60% controlling owned by Chevron and GM they were prevented from selling them.

Right now, the biggest threat to EVs, PHEVs and HEVs are governments.

And who do you think lobbies the bejeebers out of the government to threaten those things? Here's a hint half the Bush administration is in the big oil business. Bush himself was/is. (this should be obvious/common household knowledge for most of you).

Governments LOVE the gas tax. It's easy to tax gasoline

The gas tax pays for our roads, and not very well at that. The state with the highest tax on Gasoline is Hawaii at 53.5 cents per gallon. http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/st...tate_2002.html
The federal is 18.4 cents.
www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
This is small potatoes compared to the cost of the crude. Even if they took off 72 cents a gallon the prices would still be over $3 a gallon. The oil companies/opec are deliberately limiting the production of crude inorder to rake in higher and higher profits from you.
http://www.click2houston.com/sh/auto...22-100251.html

For those who say the oil companies are not the one to blame are naive as hell. Those who say they are making the same profit margin of oft said "6% that they always have" seem to misunderstand that before when oil was $10 a barrel they were making .60 cents for every barrel. Now that it is $125 a barrel they are making $7.50 per barrel for billions of barrels. I mean let's stop bs-ing around here. According to the State Department's 323 page plan for Iraq's oil the Iraq war was designed specifically to destroy Opec's main competition.
http://www.gregpalast.com/bush-didnt...raq-you-fools/

"WMDs" and "terrorists" my arse.

Over 70,000 deaths, and over 1 million disabilities among American soldiers attributed to Iraq Wars says U.S. government data
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../21/02286.html

[theholycow]

[RightontheMarc]

The conspiracy was over in the 90s. Its now a series of criminal acts and a plan already in action. To suggest it is still just "theories" means your head is buried deeply in the sand and you don't even notice the nearly $4/gallon gas.

conspiracy
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...piracy&x=0&y=0

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by RightontheMarc

Seems like the only lithiums available are the tiny ones.

The rest of your rant MIGHT approach credibility if you did SOME research on large format Lithiums.

Try Googling "Valence Technologoies", Saft, Johnson Controls and A123 Systems, and you'll see that there are a lot of companies making, or beginning to make big Lithium batteries.

And to further my point about monopolies, one company is even beginning to make the old lead-acid battery more energy dense using carbon foam. This battery will have an energy density better than NiMH. It's a spinoff company from a good old U.S.A. capitalist company, Caterpillar:

http://www.illinoisvc.org/pages/firefly/264.php

Maybe someone will make a battery from tinfoil. Then you can trade in your hat. (or, your cat's.)