Engine balancing, and cryo-treating.

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I was wondering if anyone has had their engine balenced, and how big of a differnce it made, the reason I ask this is I heard about some guy back in the 70's or 80's who had a VW Karmann Ghia who had the entire engine (and the rest of the rotating parts???) ballenced, blue printed and port matched, and was able to get something like 45mpg.
as I understand it engines are only factory ballenced to pretty rough tollernces, and that if you take the time there is alot of room for improvement, and a better ballenced engine is going to last longer, run smoother/more efficently.
and this is a slightly differnt topic, but something I would have done if I had my engine riped down for balencing, Cryogenic Treatment, everyone I talked to said it really does change the micro structure of the metal parts, it was only a 3-4% increase in efficentcy, but something like 2-3 times the wear life, and right there a engine that could last for 1,000,000 miles would be worth the $450 it costs to have a 4 cylender engine cryo-treated, spend another $100 or so and have your wheel bearings treated maybe?
I've been wanting to do both of these things, and might try them on one of my honda 100 motorcycles, or on a car if I had a spare engine to work on, and a rust free car for it to go in.

[Compaq888]

balancing and blue printing will almost get you nowhere. The engines are fairly balanced. What you want to do is make sure the ports of the head are even with the ports of the intake manifold. You can also use lighter engine parts to gain some mpg.

[SVOboy]

Honda engines are all internally balanced, so that's no biggy there.

I dunno about the cryo stuff, but I'm just generally uneducated in that field. I wonder if anyone has done it before...

[Bunger]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Honda engines are all internally balanced, so that's no biggy there.

Internally balanced engine just means that its balanced without the flywheel/flexplate or crank pulley on the engine.

An example of an externally balanced engine is a Ford 289, which uses a 28oz weight on the flexplate to balance the rotating assembly.

While Hondas are MUCH closer to 0 gram balance than any Ford or Chevy, it is fairly easy to get them more balanced then they came from the factory. I've balanced a few of my performance Honda builds and you can actually FEEL the difference... dunno about mileage gains though... never really drove with the pedal not pressed against the floorboard. =)

[SVOboy]

Go the the weight loss question thread and enlighten us there also!

I have heard of the hondas getting unbalanced with a combination of things like flywheel and underdrive pullies, but I dunno, half the people said yes and half the people said no, :barf:

[Bunger]

Which thread is that?

I think the thing you are refering to is the question about not using a harmonic dampener on your crank pulley. I-4 engines have a good amount of vibration, which need to be dampened somehow, if not by a harmonic dampener on the crank pulley, then the bearings will do it for you. No matter how much you balance the engine, there will still be vibration.

I have gone around and around and around on this issue, and the conclusion I've come to is this: If you need to save the 5lbs and can afford to rebuild every 20k miles IF needed, go sans dampener. If thats a show stopper for you, use the dampener and sleep easy.

[SVOboy]

I dunno which thread that is, it's one of them on the second page though,

We want to know what you did to get to 1600 in the crx.

[GasSavers_Ryland]

It's a bad artical, but what got me checking in to cryo-treating was this artical http://www.atsnn.com/story/145218.html it makes it sound almost like he's running a frozen engine, but really he's running an engine that all the parts have been cryogenicly tempered, just like hardening, and tempering metal makes it stronger, cryo-treating it makes it... tuffer, I have some wood working tools where the blades are treated this way, and they are a pain to sharpen because the steel is tuff, but they also hold an edge like you wouldn't belive because it's strong, without being brittle, or soft, it's molicules hold on to each other more tightly, because as they cool down, the're movement slows, untill they reach a point where they are nearly stoped and get closer together, lining up, becoming more uniform and stable, once it's warmed to room temputure they retain alot of that order, or at least that is what I've been able to gather from reading articals on cryo-treating, and talking to a chemist ex-co-worker, and from comparing my wood working tools that have been treated like this, to the same brand that have not, it seems compleatly legitement, and like if you have your engine already appart, totaly worth doing mostly for the exstended life, but also the fuel savings.

and with ballencing, I ralize that modern engines are ballenced ammazingly well, but there is alwas room for improvement, unless you can say that they are perfect then I say they can be better.

[Bunger]

Originally Posted by Ryland

...cryogenicly tempered, just like hardening, and tempering metal makes it stronger, cryo-treating it makes it... tuffer...

and with ballencing, I ralize that modern engines are ballenced ammazingly well, but there is alwas room for improvement, unless you can say that they are perfect then I say they can be better.

From what I've heard, after you "cryo" your engine parts, you may need to machine them as the metal my "straighten" itself and no longer be in the shape you desire. Though I have heard a lot of good stuff about it in general.

As far as balancing, there is almost always room for improvement.