Elio Update

[luv2spd]

So after a year, they are currently testing 20 vehicles on public roads before starting production. The body was changed to a unibody and the suspension tweaked for better handling and aerodynamics. It's a good thing that I can't put down a deposit on this because I would be e-mailing Paul Elio weekly. "When does production start? Are you finished yet with the retooling of the factory? Why are you late? Do you need more money? I can give you more money, but the girlfriend....."

The E1c during testing



You can see the unibody in the background



Prototype leaving the garage

[Draigflag]

It's the poor man's VW XL1, there's alot I like about this car, and alot I dislike, but many of the things I dislike are due to the fact that they want to keel the cost down.

[Charon]

After following the Elio Facebook page for a while, I don't think they have ever produced 20 vehicles. I think their grand total is seven, no two of which are alike.

First there was the P1 (as in Prototype) which was the open frame. They added body panels to change P1 into P2. Then came P3 and P4, with donor engines from the Geo Metro. P5 has the first IAV designed Elio engine and Elio says it is the last of the P-series. The P-series was built using a tubular steel frame and plastic body panels. Total, four vehicles.

Now Elio says it is working on the E-series (as in Engineering). They are all called E1 with a letter suffix. E1a went to Continental for ABS calibration. It is not a complete production vehicle, since it is to be used for testing. E1d went to RedDot for HVAC validation, and the pictures of it being pushed onto a trailer seem to show it lacking its front drive axles. E1c is the vehicle in the picture above, and its fate is to join Elio's dog-and-pony show circuit tour. It was "revealed" at the Los Angeles Auto Show. There has been no mention of E1b, nor of its planned use. The E-series abandoned the tubular steel frame in favor of a conventional stamped and welded unibody, like almost all cars produced today. Total, three E-series vehicles, of which only one may be complete.

There has been no publicly revealed testing of the much-hyped 84 mpg, nor any publicly revealed information about the testing of the IAV engine. There was a video over a year ago purportedly showing the engine on a dynamometer, but no actual information.

Before anyone gets too enthusiastic about the Elio, I suggest reading through their SEC (Securities Exchange Commission) filings. They are not easy reading, but they are very informative. All SEC Filings :: Elio Motors, Inc. (ELIO)

[luv2spd]

Thanks for the info, I will add them on Facebook to follow the progress. I really really hope that this car will get made and then sold outside of the US.

[Charon]

Do not rely solely on Elio Motors' Facebook page for information. They are notorious for "hiding" questions or comments they don't like. When those comments are "hidden" they remain visible to the original poster, so the poster doesn't realize no one else can see them. They also like to ban people who keep asking difficult questions. Here of late they have taken to "hiding" comments that refer to the latest SEC filing, which might just possibly be a violation of SEC rules.

There are more Facebook pages relating to Elio than just their page. It doesn't take much searching to find some of them, although Elio usually hides or deletes any reference to them. Many people believe that Elio also has several "fake" Facebook accounts, which they use to "leak" information or to attack or discredit non-believers ("nay-sayers" or "haters").

[OliverGT]

I'd be with Charon on this one.

There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here. I've always thought the 84MPG was a bit of strange number, almost plucked out of hat type number?

If they have any E1? vehicles running, and they could achieve that 84MPG, I'm sure they would be publishing test results and shouting from the roof tops about it. The fact they publish very little (or none!) in the way of test results would worry me.

It's going to be a 3 cylinder 0.9L engine with 55BHP, I can't find the weight, if we had that we could make a good guestimate for mpg

The other thing I noticed was the 84MPG claim is for Highway MPG and they are citing the fact that it's the small frontal area that helps here (I can't find the page at the moment). But I would think the aerodynamics are not that great with the two front wheels sticking out. I'm not an aero expert, so very happy to be corrected.

Also the fact that it has 3 wheels means that it is classed as a Motorcycle, are these subject to the same EPA testing as cars in the US? From what I can find out there are emission limits but no official MPG testing.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for the Elio to get into production, I just can't see it myself, they have been trying for 6 or 7 years at this stage and they have had a lot of funding, you would think they would have a fairly good prototype at this stage for Press and other testers to try out.

Maybe one of us on here who live close to them could drop them an email and ask to try Hypermiling one, see if we can squeeze a bit more than 84mpg out of it.

Oliver.

[Draigflag]

If cost wasn't an issue, they should strike a deal with VW and get the rights to have the 0.8 litre 2 cylinder diesel engine put in, that would probably double the mpg figure with ease, given that 300-400 mpg is possible in the XL1 with the same engine setup with the hybrid. I know it's a silly suggestion, but just imagine how cool it would be.

[luv2spd]

Also the fact that it has 3 wheels means that it is classed as a Motorcycle, are these subject to the same EPA testing as cars in the US? From what I can find out there are emission limits but no official MPG testing.

I know that since around the year 2,000; motorcycles had to have catalytic converters and adhere to the same kind of regulations as cars. So even though the Elio is a motorcycle, the EPA regulations for it would be almost the same.

Elio engine, supposed to make 55hp and 55lbft with a 12:1 compression

[OliverGT]

I have just read some of the SEC filing, to date they have managed to burn through 123 million dollars! And will be looking for another 300 million to kick off production.

There is no date set to start production, not even a very loose one. When they do start they are talking about making 65,000 in the first year (nearly 200 per day) to satisfy the pre orders.

I wonder how much longer they can keep going? Using up other people's money.

If they had started small 6 years ago, rather than trying to take over the world, they may well have succeeded. But I fear we are never designed to see Elios travelling our roads, which is a shame.

Oliver.

[Charon]

Elio said for a long time that their vehicle was to weigh 1250 pounds. It was never made clear whether that is the so-called "dry weight" or the more realistic curb weight, with full fuel and fluids. This weight was included in the earliest SEC filings. A later filing changed the weight to 1350, with no explanation. Just a few days ago (early December 2016) Elio repeated the claim of 1250 pounds. A story appeared, supposed to have been told to a questioner by an Elio representative, that the P5 prototype was some 600 pounds overweight, largely due to the tube frame and the plastic body panels. I once asked for a photo of the certified scale ticket for the E1c, but Elio hid the post.

Elio has claimed their engine will produce 55 horsepower and 55 ft-lb of torque, will displace 55 cid or 900 cc. 55 cid and 55 ft-lb are numbers that are considered realistic, for a naturally-aspirated engine.

Elio heavily hypes 84 mpg highway. In much smaller type they mention 48 mpg city and 60 mpg combined. The mileages are purported to be measured (really, calculated at this point) according to the EPA test cycle. When challenged to demonstrate the mpg, their claque usually says something about the vehicles being only prototypes so the testing would be meaningless. Vehicle weight is a major determinant for city mpg, while aerodynamics play a much larger role in highway mpg.