Elio ?

[Draigflag]

I dont see why you want a vehicle like that, when a normal conventional small diesel will offer better performance, safety, comfort, practicality and reliability too. Some Euro diesel owners have reported getting over 100 MPG in a conventional car.

[trollbait]

If the numbers Elio is quoting from the EPA test, the trike would return 100+mpg on the NEDC.

[Draigflag]

Or a brilliantly designed Ford Fiesta Diesel which got 108 MPG with some clever hypermiling. I know which i'd take

[trollbait]

What about an Elio with a small diesel?

Unfortunately, the US doesn't get small diesel cars. The poor Canadians lost the diesel option for the smart fortwo around the time the car became available in the US. We might some day, but the fuel price will scare most off. Those that really want it have to import a used fortwo from Canada.

[Draigflag]

It could work. Everything seems to be going petrol-hybrid now though. How much more per gallon in diesel than petrol in the US? Surely getting an extra 20 to 30 MPG would make it worth while? There is a small hike in the UK for diesel, but I just bought one 2 days ago and ive instantly gained 25 miles a gallon extra, which is a big difference to my wallet!

[Charon]

Much of the fault lies with car makers. Decades ago in the '60s the US enacted some safety and emission rules. Most European makers (except VW) had only a very small market presence in the US, because they were usually not very reliable and because they didn't meet the needs of US drivers. Those makers didn't see fit to alter their cars to meet US requirements, and so they vanished from the market. They have never returned, presumably because they are selling all they make in the EU. Some have also had financial problems and had to combine forces. Renault had an alliance with American Motors for a while in the '80s (I think) and we got the Renault 5 marketed as Le Car. Daimler-Benz "merged" with Chrysler, then sold it to Cerberus, and it got bailed out by the US government and is now united with Fiat, which also had problems. Skoda is owned by VW, as is Audi. Jaguar and Volvo were owned by Ford; Jaguar is now owned by Tata of India.

Most little cars simply do not meet American needs in terms of cruising easily for hours at Interstate speeds, while running an air conditioner. Yes, a small car could be a decent commuter, but not on a hot summer day in very slow traffic on a freeway unless it has a capable air conditioner. AC isn't usually needed in the UK. and I frankly doubt a small diesel would have the spare power to run it. Decades ago VW put AC into some of their vans, and the standing joke was that you could either move, or be cool, but not both.

Okay. Time to bash us fat, lazy Americans again. Have at it. Though I did see a news item a few days ago giving the UK the crown for having the highest percentage of obese people in Europe.

[Draigflag]

Originally Posted by Charon

Most little cars simply do not meet American needs in terms of cruising easily for hours at Interstate speeds, while running an air conditioner. Yes, a small car could be a decent commuter, but not on a hot summer day in very slow traffic on a freeway unless it has a capable air conditioner. AC isn't usually needed in the UK. and I frankly doubt a small diesel would have the spare power to run it. Decades ago VW put AC into some of their vans, and the standing joke was that you could either move, or be cool, but not both.

Okay. Time to bash us fat, lazy Americans again. Have at it. Though I did see a news item a few days ago giving the UK the crown for having the highest percentage of obese people in Europe.

Another out of date opinion Charon, good work. You are right about 1 thing, Europe builds almost double the cars that the US does, most European cars suit the needs of 95% of the Worlds population. US built cars only work in the US, everywhere else thier ridiculous economy, emissions, road manners, build quality and safety ratings are laughable.

AC and climate is standard on 90% of all small cars, now, and what makes you think we dont need it here in the UK? Mines been on a lot recently, but I use it far more in damp cold winter conditions to clear the screen. What you forget is that the hatchback is Europes best selling genre, and you can expect all the refinements and luxuries from any top of the range cruiser now on the smallest of cars. My latest ride has more toys and gadgets than anything ive ever seen, and the AC still works with engine off too.

[Charon]

Nothing I love more than being chastised for my parochial attitude by a smug Brit. Keep it up. I would enjoy it even more if you'd deign to reveal the sources of your vastly superior information. I noticed you bought a French car instead of a British one. Care to explain?

[Draigflag]

I've never owned and never will own a British car, 1. I'm not a patriot, we don't have many of those in the UK (the US is overflowing with them) instead we have manners, respect and modesty, 2. There aren't many British brands left now, the successful ones are too expensive (Jaguar, Range Rover, Rolls Royce etc) 3. British built things are famously good at going wrong!

I've met trolls like you before Charon, I know you want to get cheap kicks from trying to insult someone you know nothing about, but to be fair, I just feel a bit sorry that there's no much else going on in your life.

[trollbait]

I recently paid $3.639 per gallon for regular 87 AKI. The premium was 30 cents more, and diesel is around 40 cents higher than regular. That's around here. Some markets have the diesel around the price of regular gas, but the national average runs higher.

The smallest diesel engines offered by GM and VW are 2L in the Cruze and Golf/Jetta/Passat. I know they have smaller blocks, but the manufacturers probably feel the slower 0 to 60 times won't sell here in those cars. That and the EPA tests mean the diesel sticker numbers aren't as huge as can be seen in Europe.

Now, the EPA numbers and national fuel prices have the gas and diesel models costing about the same to go 25 miles on the Fueleconomy.gov site. Then the EPA test tends to underestimate a diesel's performance. The EPA knows this, but the regulations are geared towards the vastly more common gasoline car.

But most people just look at the price on the station sign. Price per mile is an alien concept.(Does Fuelly other that stat?) The gallon price of diesel and premium gas wouldn't be such a big issue if it were otherwise.