e85 in non-flexfuel car

[jBubb]

Yeh, the cold start issues is what kept me from jumping on board, since it gets really cold here in the winter.

But it seems that has been resolved now, for the most part. Pulstars seem to help with that even further.

[Rower4VT]

Do you have more info on the Pulstar plugs? I'd like to work on my cold-start issue before wintertime rolls around again. The car starts, it just takes 2-3 separate cranks for 2-3 secs apiece, plus have to goose it alittle. Though last winter I was running lean on cold-start and I have since increased my fuel pressure so I am no longer running lean in open-loop...if anything a little rich. I'd still like to hear more about your experience with Pulstars and E85. Thanks.

[90accord]

Originally Posted by Rower4VT

1. E85 will NOT necessarily eat through aluminum, only certain alloys and other certain un-anodized.

2. E85 will generally NOT destroy rubber seals and hoses on vehicles built after 1988...obviously if your vehicle is very old, and the rubber is degraded, the E85 may worsen the problem.

3. Not all vehicles experience a 20-25% drop in FE, some may only drop 10-15% in FE. It all depends on the vehicle, native compression, timing, and fuel management software.

4. Almost any vehicle with an O2 sensor built after 1988 can handle upto 50-60% ethanol without any issues such as burning too lean. Though the optimal fuel/air ratio is different for ethanol and gasoline, the O2 sensor senses lambda not the air/fuel ratio...so when ethanol is burned it will naturally burn richer to keep the optimal fuel/air ratio.

5. Advancing the ignition does little to help FE or power on an E85 vehicle. Though the octane is 105, and the engine will not knock even with significant ignition advance, the nature of the fuel does not provide for noticeable increase in FE or power. Higher compression, however, can give noticeable increase in power and FE. So mill the heads and call it good.

6. I have a '94 Acura Vigor with ~202k miles on it. Threw in larger injectors and it runs fine on 100% gasoline, 100% E85 or anything inbetween. No check engine lights, stumbling, fouled plugs or anything of the sort. No issues with seals, lines, or other leaks or part degradation. The oil even looks cleaner after 5k miles than normal because the ethanol burns cleaner. I have been running well over 5k miles on E85.

My mileage has dropped about 17-18% compared to gasoline, but E85 is 19-20% cheaper here, so I'm ahead.

As a note, before installing larger injectors, I was able to run about 60% ethanol without any issues...~65% and you would notice stumbling once in a while and a check engine light would pop once a week for a "lean condition".

Remember, a lot of the "scare" you hear about ethanol is from back in the 70's when methanol was added to the gasoline in the last gas crunch. Methanol is much more corrosive than ethanol, plus the fuel lines and seals back then were not made to handle any level of alcohol in the fuel. Ethanol is a much milder alcohol, and like I said previously, most cars built after 1988 have federally mandated fuel lines and seals able to with-stand alcohol.

Where did you find bigger injectors for your vigor? how do you figure what size to get? Can you just use an adjustable fuel pressure regulater to give the car more fuel instead of installing new injectors? I'm still intrested in making the accord flex fuel. thanks for all the imput!!!

[90accord]

just to let y'all know. I decided to put a 2 gallons of e85 in a 1/2 tank in the accord 2 days ago. So far runs great, and no mods were done, all stock.

[99R/T]

I've been running E85 in my '99 Dakota for the last month and a half, the only modifications necessary were 25% larger fuel injectors. I'm running a piggyback controller on the ECU so I can tune it for the turbocharger (not installed yet), and I used it to bump up the ignition timing.

I took it to the track after letting the ECU reset the fuel trims, and ran identical times as on 93 octane, though the air was 20* hotter.

Its got a noticeable increase in torque, and my MPG only dropped 8-10%. (9/14 versus 10/17.

[jhill98]

I'm running E85 in my 1994 Saturn SC1 with the TBI. I'm on the 3rd fill-up and it seems to run just fine, no check engine light, no huge driveablity issues. Does crank an extra bit to get it started and until the O2 is hot it is a bit tedious, but not horrible. It is driveable.

I'm currently looking for a little larger injeector for that cold / open loop time, and a retrofit kit for a heated O2 sensor, to get that up and running quicker.

We shall see, it definitely runs smoother lower in the rpm band. With 87 octane gasoline you really have a hard time running in 5th lower than 30-32MPH without the shakes, even on a flat surface and even with a small amount of tip in on the throttle. With E85 i can run at 25MPH in 5th, and tip it in quite a bit and it just accelerates, none of the (please downshift) shakes.

Jeff

[Rower4VT]

You have to search some Honda and/or Accord forums and such to find out what size injectors you have, and what other injectors fit. There's also the impedance issue which you'll find more about when you start searching the Honda/Accord forums. Personally, the one's I'm using are from a late model V6 Hyundai Sonata...they would most likely fit your Accord also...don't know if the flowrate would be right however.

A fuel pressure regulator is the easiest route. Bump the pressure up to 60psi +/- and you should be good....adjust from there for drivability. Don't go much over 65psi as the fuel injectors may not close correctly.

Originally Posted by 90accord

Where did you find bigger injectors for your vigor? how do you figure what size to get? Can you just use an adjustable fuel pressure regulater to give the car more fuel instead of installing new injectors? I'm still intrested in making the accord flex fuel. thanks for all the imput!!!