e85 in non-flexfuel car

[Rower4VT]

There's a youtube video that describes the same Tahoe test and shows the teardown afterwards. The valves and pistons in the E85 Tahoe had pretty much no carbon deposits compared to the gasoline one, and the fuel pump had no gunk build-up unlike the one that ran gasoline. My Acura has over 200k miles, and the oil is only slightly darker when I drain after 5000 miles than it was going in....when I was using gasoline it was much darker after 5k miles of use.

[90accord]

thanks for all the info. I will keep it on file. I found it very usefull, & may use it someday,however I decided to buy a Mercedes 300d turbo diesel and convert it to use wvo/svo/& or biodiesel while I had the funds to do it. The price of gasoline is rediculous so i decided to sell my gasoline cars. I will possibly buy a gasoline scooter, the kind that I can ride on the hwy. Im simply tired of it all, so im doing something about it. Currently I drive a 1990 accord with no interior but a drivers seat, no a/c only to top out an average of 25mpg. The benz will give me power/full interior/style/ A/C / with an average of 27 mpg for about a dollar a gallon and I just helped my buddy get a job at my place of employment so we can use the carpool lane, so there is no traffic , just a smooth steady speed. He drives his car for a week , then I drive the next. I just cut my fuel cost from approx. $200.00 a month to approx $25.00 a month. LOL I say that's pretty good!!! Thanks yall

[1cheap1]

Checked my manual for the MAZDA, E10 YES, E85 NO GOOD. I need to find out what the reason is for Mazda to ok one and not the other. If and when i no longer can get e10 i will mix race fuel with the e85 to bring it up to where it should be.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by 1cheap1

I need to find out what the reason is for Mazda to ok one and not the other.

It's easier/cheaper to design/build for E10; it's pretty much the same as straight gasoline. E85 is too different, it requires lots of different materials, different programming, and to run efficiently it probably needs different injectors, additional range on adjustable spark timing, lots of testing, etc. In short, E10 doesn't need anything special, E85 does.

My 1980 Buick's manual says E10 is fine, too.

[Rower4VT]

E85 does not need any special materials beyond E10 for the most part...besides the ability of the fuel management software to be able to adjust to a richer mixture for E85. Case in point: Brazil. All their cars are run on E85, however many of the models they use are the same as our NON-flexfuel vehicles. The only thing they did to most older cars in Brazil is add a module in-line with the leads to the fuel injectors that simply lengthens the pulse-width of the injectors. The ECU in conjunction with the O2 sensor will automatically adjust the a/f ratio. It is really upsetting when people just spout off "...E85 is too different, it requires lots of different materials, different programming, and to run efficiently it probably needs different injectors, additional range on adjustable spark timing, lots of testing, etc...." when they haven't really investigated what the REAL story is.

Check out http://e85vehicles.com/e85/ there are tons of people running between E50 and E85 in NON-flexfuel vehicles. I have yet to hear of someone's fuel tank rusting out, or fuel lines failing. Check it out. Do the research. Trust me, I would not have converted my old car if I thought there was the chance my transportation to work was going to fail me.

[R.I.D.E.]

No E85 here, so its not an option. The energy content of alcohol is about 65%of gasoline.

Indy cars have used alcohol for quite some time. I think they run compression ratios of about 16 to 1.

Shaving your head can lead to many problems, loose timing chain, valves hitting pistons. In an OHC engine you need to shim the cam towers (if possible) to keep the timing chain tight enough.

On the 81-83 280 ZX Nissan engines the combustion chamber portion of the head had an area that was only 1 MM from the piston crown.

They would get a carbon knock, sounded like the engine was falling apart. We used an old Binks #7 paint gun to clean out the carbon, with atomized water, with the throttle at about 2500 RPM.

16 to 1 is about halfway between a normal 9-10 to 1 gas engine and 22+ to 1 in a diesel.

EPA Nissan Titan 13 city on E10
9 city on E85

regards
gary

[Rower4VT]

There are definitely concerns with many engines when it comes to milling the heads or trying to otherwise increase the compression ratio. 16:1 is pretty drastic...more far race motors like you said. I've read of more conservative modifications, like increasing the compression ratio from (for example) a stock 9.5:1 to 10.5:1. This would give you power and efficiency gains on E85, however still allow you to run premium in a pinch.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Rower4VT

It is really upsetting when people just spout off "...E85 is too different, it requires lots of different materials, different programming, and to run efficiently it probably needs different injectors, additional range on adjustable spark timing, lots of testing, etc...." when they haven't really investigated what the REAL story is.

It was not my intention to come off pessimistically. I am a fan of ethanol as fuel, and I often cite the success that Brazil has. I did think they're using the flex-fuel equipment; I am surprised and happy to hear otherwise.

[jBubb]

So many myths about E85...

"Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter."

Yes, you will see a drop in FE, slightly... but in my 99 Metro, after some tweaking of the conversion module, I've got that down to around 6% or less in FE.

But even with 6-9% loss in FE, I still come out a head in $$$, especially when regular E10 gas is almost $1.50 more (some places in CO are selling it for $2.59 a gallon) then E85 around here. So in the end, there is no drop in FE, only a increase in my eyes.


I'll never go back to E10. Car runs better, more power, my engine knock is GONE and runs much much quieter now. Also, my money supports OUR economy and supports our local farmers. I can live with only a 6-9% loss in FE... but in reality it isn't a loss, because I'm still saving more money versus E10 and come out a head, even with the 6-9% drop in FE.

I'm supposed to be using Pulstar Spark plugs with E85, they apaprenlty increase FE even more and assist with cold starting. Running stock spark plugs for now, want to do a few more test runs, then I'll give the Pulstar's a try.


Here's the conversion kit I purchased...

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront


Also read this about fact vs. media spin fiction...

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths


I can post a tutorial on how to install a e85 kit on a Metro, complete with pictures if you all want.

Took me 15 minutes to install and off I went.

[GasSavers_RoadWarrior]

That's cool, like the cold start kit, that's the one thing that was bugging me about rolling my own conversion if E85 was available here. With one of those it would work.