E10 Woes - Fuelly Forums

Click here to see important news regarding the aCar App

Go Back   Fuelly Forums > Fuel Talk > General Fuel Topics
Today's Posts Search Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-14-2008, 05:03 AM   #1
Moderator
 
GasSavers_DaX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,209
Country: United States
E10 Woes

All my favorite non-ethanol stations are turning into E10 stations!

I'm getting about 50 miles less per tank with E10.
__________________

GasSavers_DaX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 05:30 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_RoadWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,652
Try advancing your timing a tad if you can...
__________________

__________________
I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
GasSavers_RoadWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 03:56 PM   #3
Registered Member
 
bowtieguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,873
Country: United States
Location: orlando, florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaX View Post
All my favorite non-ethanol stations are turning into E10 stations!
same here. going to leave shell at least temporarily to look for non-E10 gas. might have to go back to exxon , as it's easily the cheapest in my area.

gonna give chevron a try first tho.
bowtieguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:22 PM   #4
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 174
Country: United States
I get my gas at Valero, i just found out that they quit selling non ethanol gas as of may 5th or sooner. All company's will have to sell ethanol to avoid the risk of lawsuits from MTBE in gasoline. We will just have to adjust i guess.
1cheap1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:29 PM   #5
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 96
Country: United States
Ethanol hmmmmm . . .

Maybe I can shed some light on this subject. Iso-octane, the standard that all fuels are measured against, is a 100 octane gasoline. Octane is a measurement system not unlike an inch, or an hour. It is a fuel's ability to resist the combustion process. The resistance allows an engine to be built specifically for best efficiency to complete the one task the internal combustion engine has: The conversion of chemical energy into mechanical force. Iso-octane has a stoich. air/fuel ratio of 15.1:1 and a heating value 19,100 btu/lb. The specific energy at stoich. air/fuel ratio is 2.9 and the heat of vapor is .027. The formula is C8H18 and the molecular weight is 114. The oxygen content is 0 which makes a very energy rich fuel. As you all know, gasoline at the pump depending on grade has a 87 to 93 octane, on average. The increased dilution lowers the heating value and therefore the specific energy in each gallon of gas that your engine consumes. This is dually beneficial for fuel manufacturers. The shorter distance you get per gallon of gas forces you to return back to the pump earlier at higher prices. This is why it is beneficial for them to put greater quantities of ethanol into their mix. Ethanol (C2H5OH) has a molecular weight of 46, and next is one of the big ones: Oxygen content is 34.8 with a horrible stoich. air/fuel ratio of 9.0:1, a heating value of only 11,500 btu/lb, a specific energy of 3.0, and a desirable heat of vapor of .93. Boiling point is 78 degrees. That can be a plus or minus. Depending on whether your fuel tank vents to the atmosphere, (The next time you go to start your car it may not have the same amount of gas as when you shut it off.); as well as, an octane number varying between a RON of 109 and and MON of 90. To put this in layman's terms: a gallon of gas from 1969 compared to a gallon of gas today would yield much greater mileage due to the specific energy that the '69 gasoline had (usually around 100-108 octane). Oil companies discovered a long time ago that diluting the fuel couched under the guise of cleaner, therefore better, allowed them to increase their profit margin while providing a much poorer product to the public. This is why vehicles from the '60s and '70s were built with very high static compression ratios. They were built for the fuel that was being sold at that time. Inversely, the late '70s to '90s vehicles had low compression ratios because they were built to burn the fuel sold at that time. Today's pump gasoline in California is not required to have a posted ethanol content if it is lower than 15 percent. That might answer some people's questions about why they consistently get worse mileage at one station and better mileage at another. Today's vehicles use very elaborate fuel management systems to optimize the engine's performance with today's overly diluted fuels. Many of today's newly manufactured vehicles are starting to be built with higher static compression ratios due to better combustion chamber and cylinderhead designs. Now the next whammie: Flex-fuel vehicles have noticed an understandable 26 percent decrease in mileage when using E85. One would wonder whether the use of smaller quantities of the higher specific energy original gasoline would produce higher emissions compared to much larger quantities of the highly diluted fuel of today. Especially using today's much more design efficient cars. It has been a question in my mind for a long time.
soletek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:57 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
1993CivicVX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,069
Country: United States
Send a message via AIM to 1993CivicVX
Quote:
Originally Posted by soletek View Post
[snip] Flex-fuel vehicles have noticed an understandable 26 percent decrease in mileage when using E85. One would wonder whether the use of smaller quantities of the higher specific energy original gasoline would produce higher emissions compared to much larger quantities of the highly diluted fuel of today. Especially using today's much more design efficient cars. It has been a question in my mind for a long time.
You don't have a hunch or hypothesis?
__________________
three stripes the charm!

Car mods are overrated. Just gotta adjust that nut behind the wheel for best mpg.



Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.
1993CivicVX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 08:06 PM   #7
Registered Member
 
VetteOwner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,546
Country: United States
well theyve had e10 around here since the 80's... all our cars run great off it yet you can still find a few stations that have ethonal free regular (the ethonals in the midgrade then) but there kinda hard (i know of like 3 out of prolly 50 gas stations lol)
VetteOwner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 11:02 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 96
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteOwner View Post
well theyve had e10 around here since the 80's... all our cars run great off it
Yeah, but not on it right?
soletek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 11:11 PM   #9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 96
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993CivicVX View Post
You don't have a hunch or hypothesis?
Opinions expressed here are fodder for the opinionated; but, that's just my opinion.
soletek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 11:22 PM   #10
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 174
Country: United States
So if ethanol is high in oxygen and sucks water out of the air then we would have to keep air out of the fuel tank or keep it to a minimum. Would we have to replace the tank with some sort of soft bladder type tank that would collapse as needed? Or a series of small cells that would keep the air out of the others?
__________________

1cheap1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How should I start recording? bennieboy Fuelly Web Support and Community News 1 09-17-2011 11:40 PM
Porting and Polishing.. baddog671 General Fuel Topics 5 07-04-2007 08:56 AM
eBay: 1982 Ford pickup Electravan MetroMPG Electric and Solar powered 2 06-24-2007 07:34 PM
Smart for two slurp812 General Fuel Topics 18 05-12-2007 01:03 PM
Premium Fuel when "Recommended" rh77 General Fuel Topics 9 03-30-2007 05:28 PM

» Fuelly Android Apps
No Threads to Display.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.