CRX HF, Civic CX/VX owners, do you get locked out of 1st gear when moving???

[imzjustplayin]

Good news:I read the owner's manual for the civic and discovered that ALL FORWARD GEARS ARE SYNCHRONIZED. Secondly that there is no "lockout" of 1st gear but you DO have to double clutch and come to a complete stop in order to shift into Reverse since it isn't synchronized.

I also just drove the car today and discovered something.. I CAN shift into 1st gear from 2nd gear while still moving at a moderate pace (20mph), and while I thought the resistance meant it was locked out, it was in fact NOT locked out since there is no such thing on this transmission. However in order to get into first, I had to push a bit harder on the shifter than I normally do when I'm at a complete standstill.

Bad news: I think I need new first gear synchros because I'm pretty sure those teeth are worn down. While it wasn't "grinding" when I tried to shift into 1st from 2nd, there was enough resistance to tell me that the 1st gear synchro is worn out...

Conclusion:
There is no 1st gear lockout
If you can't get into 1st gear unless you're at a complete standstill AND/OR you have to force the shifter it into 1st, then your 1st gear synchros are worn down...

I guess this isn't a total surprise considering the transmission has 175K miles on it..

[theholycow]

Have you tried double clutching?

[Bubba Bob]

Worn synchros or not, you will have resistance shifting into first while at speed. The speed difference between the two gears is just too great.

Generally with a manual you either want to double clutch before shifting into first or don't do it unless stopped. Remember, the synchros do their job as you put the transmission in gear but before you let out on the clutch. That resistance you feel is the synchro grinding into the gear collar trying to bring the gear up to speed.

There are two kinds of manual transmission drivers. Those that can make the transmissions last forever, and those that trash synchros like an auto transmission trashes clutches. Synchros don't have to be wear items...

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by theholycow

Have you tried double clutching?

yeah I did, did absolutely nothing to help with shifting into 1st.. If I double clutched from 2nd to 1st or didn't double clutch from 2nd to 1st, you'd never know because it feels exactly the same.. I tried revving the engine to rev match and that didn't help either. Rev matching, double clutching, what ever, if you do all of the above or none of the above, it felt exactly the same.

[Bubba Bob]

Originally Posted by *************

yeah I did, did absolutely nothing to help with shifting into 1st.. If I double clutched from 2nd to 1st or didn't double clutch from 2nd to 1st, you'd never know because it feels exactly the same.. I tried revving the engine to rev match and that didn't help either. Rev matching, double clutching, what ever, if you do all of the above or none of the above, it felt exactly the same.

What exactly is your procedure to double clutch? For dropping a gear one would need to first press and release the clutch to release the synchro, then revmatch and hit the clutch to get the gear up to speed before the synchro hits the collar. THEN move the shifter from neutral up to 1st.

Just double clutching or rev matching and you're still grinding the synchro.

[theholycow]

Broken down into individual steps:
1. Clutch pedal down
2. Shift to neutral
3. Clutch pedal up
4. Rev up to (and a little beyond) target RPM
5. Clutch pedal down while still at high RPM
6. Shift while still at high RPM (hold RPM with gas pedal if necessary)

If you do it right, you do the synchro's work instead of depending on the synchro to do its job.

1st is the hardest to DC into.

[R.I.D.E.]

Follow HC's step by step exactly. There is nothing wrong with your synchros.
If there was the gears would grind when you tried to downshift into first.

Doesnt matter what gear you start from when you rev match in neutral.

Rev matching means you rev the engine in neutral to the same rpm you would be going if the car was in first gear.

regards
Gary

[imzjustplayin]

what about clutch pedal down, shift to neutral, clutch pedal up, clutch pedal down, rev up, shift into 1st gear while holding RPM?

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

Follow HC's step by step exactly. There is nothing wrong with your synchros.
If there was the gears would grind when you tried to downshift into first.

Doesnt matter what gear you start from when you rev match in neutral.

Rev matching means you rev the engine in neutral to the same rpm you would be going if the car was in first gear.

regards
Gary

yes I'm aware of what rev matching is...

[Bubba Bob]

what about clutch pedal down, shift to neutral, clutch pedal up, clutch pedal down, rev up, shift into 1st gear while holding RPM?

No - If you rev the engine with the clutch on the floor their is essentially no point in reving the engine since the clutch separates the transmission from the change in speed. So... Your synchro will still be grinding the gear collar because the gear didn't increase speed with your rev.

EDIT -

This post confuses me and I wrote it. LOL.

Quick and simple - As THC wrote in steps 3-5, rev match with the clutch pedal up.

[imzjustplayin]

I tried what you guys said to try which is revving in neutral THEN shifting into 1st gear, and again it did absolutely nothing to help shift into 1st gear.. Maybe this IS a feature of the transmission where it's possible to shift into 1st gear, but they don't make it too easy.