Comparing Old and New EPA MPG Estimates

[diamondlarry]

In light of the following from cleanmpg.com, I may change my numbers back to the old numbers.

diamondlarry


Re: 2008 MPG estimator

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Would this one from the EPA be more accurate? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

Here is the reply:

Today, 11:05 AM
xcel
Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: Accord, Ranger, and anything else
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 5,657


Re: 2008 MPG estimator

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Hi Larry:

___Unfortunately not Very few automobiles have been run through the entire 5-cycle test that the hybrids have so the estimators are all but useless imho. Would you like the link to the final EPA Test doc for an all day read on what they have decided upon wrt test criteria and some of the hybrids combined right from the EPA report?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[GasSavers_BluEyes]

Originally Posted by theclencher

I don't like the change. It rewards leadfoots. Now they won't be ashamed with their crappy FE- but they weren't before either.

I thought that, driven carefully yet not doing any extreme hypermiling, the estimates were darn near exactly what could be obtained in the real world.

EPA ratings aren't supposed to be a goal for drivers, they were supposed to be an estimate for what the average driver would get so that they could effectively cross-compare cars before buying them.

I truly doubt that the average driver was 'ashamed' of not hitting the EPA numbers before. Most people were either mad at the EPA or the automaker for putting out 'inaccurate' numbers, which is why they were changed.

Yes, there will be much fewer cars above 30mpg now, but that has hit all automakers equally. Of course, 30mpg wasn't much of a hurdle anymore. With the new ratings, 30mpg will become a solid bragging point.

As for old vs new ratings - I vote for using the new ratings. Yes, the numbers at www.fueleconomy.gov for the older models are estimates, but they are what is officially published as the numbers to use when comparing older cars to 2008 models. Since we will soon have people joining here with 2008 models that ONLY have numbers published under the new system, we should put everything on a level playing field.

[kickflipjr]

The good:
Auto makers will have to make more fuel efficient cars to meet CAFE.

The bad:
It will be easier for drivers to meet epa. So drivers might have worse driving habit (I doubt this will have any effect. People will continue to drive stupid like they did before).

[SVOboy]

Originally Posted by kickflipjr

The good:
Auto makers will have to make more fuel efficient cars to meet CAFE.

The bad:
It will be easier for drivers to meet epa. So drivers might have worse driving habit (I doubt this will have any effect. People will continue to drive stupid like they did before).

CAFE tests vehicles seperately from EPA testing, EPA estimate will not affect CAFE.

[cfg83]

Hello -

I vote for both, as stated previously. I think this is actually a reasonable request of the Garage. The "CAFE EPA MPG" landscape is changing, so the GasSavers Garage should adapt.

It's more work for Matt, but I think it is also a good value-add.

Should someone start a EPA vote thread?

CarloSW2

[thisisntjared]

see thats what i was thinking about. if everything takes a 13-15% hit then the american trucks only lose 1mpg and they dont care. the cars that are actually worth something like the insight and the prius and anything that was/is over 50mpg, they take the big hit and they suddenly become not that big of a deal this closes the integer mpg gap between cars by 13-15%... making american cars not look as bad compared to the high mpg cars which are coming down 10mpg.

[GasSavers_Bruce]

The estimates will eventually need to change just to be fair. As it stands right now, you can buy hypermiling status just by buying a new car.

However, I'm not changing mine until instructed otherwise -- either the instructions in the garage or the EPA's website will need to change. Right now, the instructions still tell you to get your EPA estimates from the old database, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm.

[jadziasman]

The new EPA mpg calculation is very accurate - at least for the two 92 VX's I have owned over the past 15 years. I have monitored the mpg of my current VX over the past year. My overall average for 350 gallons of petrol has been 43.5. The highways I drive require me to drive at least 70 mph in the far right lane (you would need to be loony to drive any slower in Michigan, Indiana or Illinois on the interstates) My 48 mpg highway (200 miles or more in a single trip) is within 1 mpg of the new estimates. Both my VX's have had air conditioning and I use it whenever the black/gray interior of my VX gets too warm. And my mpg suffers just like everyone else when the temperature drops below 10?F. I would love to consistently achieve 50 MPG but it is not practical since I can't drive any slower - full size pickups seem to want to drive right over me even at 70 mph - in the slow lane! - and I refuse to sweat profusely just for a few more mpg. Plug in hybrids seem to me the next big leap for mpg. I will be an old man by the time used P.I.H 's are priced below today's equivalent of $5000. I will have to suffer with the 43.5 mpg grand average for now.

[CO ZX2]

Originally Posted by diamondlarry

In light of the following from cleanmpg.com, I may change my numbers back to the old numbers.



Here is the reply:

Almost. Nice try, diamondlarry.

[GasSavers_BluEyes]

Originally Posted by thisisntjared

see thats what i was thinking about. if everything takes a 13-15% hit then the american trucks only lose 1mpg and they dont care. the cars that are actually worth something like the insight and the prius and anything that was/is over 50mpg, they take the big hit and they suddenly become not that big of a deal this closes the integer mpg gap between cars by 13-15%... making american cars not look as bad compared to the high mpg cars which are coming down 10mpg.

Actually, if you compare American cars to other cars of similar size/weight you will see that they are not as bad as often thought, even a bit ahead in some instances, both before and after the adjustment. (Take a look at the Chevy Malibu vs Toyota Camry for instance)

The truth is that most people didn't get the rated mileage in the Insight, Prius, etc because most people don't drive the way the EPA test was run. Yes, it narrows the integer gap, but the percentage gap should still be similar (and after all, % is what really matters). All this will do is get rid of the unrealistic expectations and put more pressure on the automakers to go back and get the models back to the mpg's where they used to be rated.

What about putting in boxes for both old and new mileage figures and have the site calculate percentages based on both?