Commuter Car Questions

[BDC]

Why consider a Passat TDI and not a Camry Hybrid? Way faster, same price, same mileage, higher quality and better reliability. No manual trans option, but you don't have to pay extra for a crappy shifting DSG either.

[DieselDub]

There is a very, very good reason why the Passat is the North American car of the year (and that's the standard version, not the TDI which is better), I'll just leave it at that.

OP, sounds like you should be looking for a Jetta Sportwagen anyway. Beter size and space, same MPG and a lot of nice features in a slightly less expensive package.

[Draigflag]

Everyone seems to bang on about the passat and jetta Tdi. Are they the only diesel sedans available in the US? I think around 60% of cars in Europe are now diesels, but they seem far less common in the us.

[MMUK]

I think the New Beetle & Golf is out there too, but the Jetta seems to be the most common.

[Ciderbarrel]

In terms of car/SUVs, it's really only Audi, BMW, Merc, and VW that have any diesel engines in America. We have tougher emissions standards than Europe which is why Ford has a ton of diesel cars in the EU market and none here. The auto makers just do not want to invest the time and money to make the engines comply with American standards

[Draigflag]

That makes no sense. Europe has famously high emision standards, hence all the diesels which emit far less carbon dioxide than most petrol cars. Have you seen the Aston Martin Cygnet? Its an Aston the size of a smart car. Each car manufacturer must have an average co2 emission reading across thier range now, hence why we are seeing these tiny cars with prestige badges!

The VW diesels just proves this, if they can get through your emision standards, then every other diesel car will, some emit less than half the carbon that the VW does.

[MMUK]

I'm sure we've had this identical discussion before. The European emissions rules are focused on CO2 & particulates, whereas the US rules are focused on NOx emissions & particulates. So an engine which is good for one set of rules doesn't always obey the other rules.

[Draigflag]

And didnt I ask how a 5.0 litre V10 diesel truck that burns a gallon of fuel every 9 miles could some how emit less that a tiny 1.1 litre eco diesel car that does almost 100 MPG and is specifically tuned to emit less ( considering we pay carbon based taxes on our cars) its a very grey area.

[BDC]

What, Draigflaig thought this forum was his soapbox to complain about America again? No way!

Back on topic, the Passat is not the North American Car of the Year. And anybody who follows the award for more than one year knows that it is about as comical as VW saying that the new Jetta and Passat interiors are just as nice as the old ones. Like when they gave the award to the Saturn Aura a few years ago.

The TDIs are more reliable than other VWs but they are still far away from the Toyota hybrids. I get the feeling you're looking for a car for more than 5 years. I would not want to be stuck with a Volkswagen out of warranty, not even a TDI.

My point is that if you're considering a TDI Passat, make sure to test drive a Camry Hybrid. Can't hurt

[bates]

Monkeyrench, thank you for that, exactly the type of information I'm looking for, especially the real world mileage numbers for a non-Eco Cruze.

BDC, I'm not a fan of hybrid technology for a number of reasons, but let's just say that the production of the hybrid components off sets the environmental advantages of the reduced fuel economy, they are expensive to work on, and the initial capital cost is high enough that it is almost impossible to recoupe it in mileage benefits in my case and use cycle.

DieselDub, if it wasn't for my 3 kids I'd definately go with the Sportwagen, it is a better fit for my lifestyle and activites, but it is significantly more narrow than the Passat for the rear seat and my kids won't fit.

Draigflag, the US EPA and particularly the California AQMD are far from interested in reducing emmissions, they are more concerned with Political Correctness and benefit for certain manufacturers. Why did the first generation Prius's get the HOV lane stickers when the VW diesels, Minicooper, and several other vehicles with better real world mileage numbers not? Plain and simple, there were bribes involved, the CAFE standards were manipulated to give advantage to some while punishing others. Why isn't the Chevy Volt now eligible for the HOV Sticker without the "Fuel Efficiency" option in spite of being an electric vehicle with an onboard gasoline generator? The same reasons. Don't try to inject logic or reason into US Governmental regulations, never the two shall meet. Yes, you're absolutely correct, that commercial vehicles have yet another standard. They've outlawed 2 stroke motorcycles with 100 plus mpg ratings but allow exotics from Europe that can't get 8 mpg for the same reasons. Apparently the motorcycle lobby isn't as strong as that of the rich and powerful who want to drive around in Phalyic Symbols to make up for their own inadequcies.

Cinderbarrel, agreed but remember that the Audi and some of the BMW's are using the VW TDI for regulation compliance reasons. Mercedes Benz has been in the Diesel market for decades, but they've greatly scaled back their diesel offerings due to increasingly more complex emmissions standards. The only market that seems to continue is the heavy duty trucks, and even there the big 3 seem to only offer a diesel option on the 1 ton and heavier trucks in their model lines. I've been looking for a tow vehicle for a boat and need a heavy duty truck to tow it with but can't come anywhere near affording an F-450 or 550, not to mention that I can't use it for much of anything else other than towing which makes them very unappealing.