Classifying a "Clutchless Manual" Transmission

[rh77]

So, the crystal ball isn't working well when it comes to predicting the future of the FE Team Challenge

At any rate, that's why we have polls right?

The question is: How to you classify a Sequential Manual Gearbox for purposes of the competition? For those unfamiliar, it's basically a transmission that has an electronic clutch (no pedal) and sometimes an "Automatic" feature.

"Manual" is pretty simple: clutch pedal, gear throw.
"Automatic" is more complex but simple: some have "Manumatic" shift-gates, but it still has an automatic transmission hooked to it, generally with a torque converter.
The "SMG" is what? Here's a few Wikipedia entries that I looked at, but figured I'd pitch it to the group for more info:


Electrohydraulic Manual Transmission
Sequential Manual Gearbox
Semi-Automatic Transmission
(also known as "Clutchless Manual", "Automated Manual", etc.).

Since I'm not an expert on transmissions by any stretch, I've posted the poll for more insight.

If you vote, all I ask is that you have an understanding about how it works, and explain why you voted as such...

Thanks!

The Commish

[bbgobie]

Where's the poll?

I think manual because the computer is acting as the clutch and rev matching and it doesnt operate like an auto in any other sense. FE should be closer to an equivalent manual than having the losses associated with an auto.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by bbgobie

Where's the poll?

I think manual because the computer is acting as the clutch and rev matching and it doesnt operate like an auto in any other sense. FE should be closer to an equivalent manual than having the losses associated with an auto.

Hmm, it looks like the poll posts shortly after the "explanation post"...

[CO ZX2]

If the car in question has no clutch pedal and has a fully automatic mode featuring fully automated upshifts and downshifts, how much more automatic can it be? Surely not my idea of a conventional manual transmission.

I vote automatic.

[cfg83]

RH77 -

I vote automatic because I think it is only providing human decision making/control over the gear being used at speed "X". Since the driver doesn't do the "work" of shifting gears, the automatic components that add load to the engine still have to be there, right?

CarloSW2

[Gary Palmer]

I voted Automatic. My reasoning is that the manual mode is really nothing more than an automatic, where, in theory, the system allows the driver to over ride the computer or some other system which would control the shifting. I believe that they generally have a torque converter, for engaging and effectively they are a dressed up Automatic, masquarading as a Manual. I also agree that if they have a full automatic mode, they ought to be considered an Automatic.

[Bill in Houston]

If it has a bunch of whirly fluid and a torque converter, it's an automatic. If it is a computer controlled manual trans, it is a manual.

Just my opinion for purposes of the FE Team Challenge.

[zpiloto]

To me the acid test is can the driver shift gears when he wants to. If has control when it shifts then it a manual whether it has a clutch or not. Maybe a smart driver should chime in and tell us exactly how it works.

It it has a manual and a auto mode then the driver would have to use only the auto mode to be concidered an automatic, which I guess would be on the honor system.

Way I understand the system I say manual.

[kps]

For mileage purposes, I'd say the question is whether you can shift it into and out of neutral (or de-clutch it) easily and safely.

[bbgobie]

Originally Posted by Bill in Houston

If it has a bunch of whirly fluid and a torque converter, it's an automatic. If it is a computer controlled manual trans, it is a manual.

Just my opinion for purposes of the FE Team Challenge.

DING DING DING!

Just because it shifts gears for you doesnt mean it should be classified as an Auto.

The question is about the new generation of transmissions that have a clutch and are basically a manual transmision save the computer rev matches so the driver does not have to do anything. Most of these sytems will let you choose when to shift as well.

We are not talking about the same systems were its a full auto with a "manu shift" feature...