Blending biodiesel and E85 for nondiesel engines

[Jay2TheRescue]

In my younger days as a night manager of a 7-11 some drunk kids managed to get the super short hose on the kerosene pump to reach the filler on their car, and didn't realize what they did till they came in to pay and I said "$50.00 Kerosene". They ended up calling their dad who came over with empty gas cans, and they cycled the key from off to run to pump the tank out.

[madnessspirit]

It will smoke like hell and get horrible mileage if it burns at all. Oil needs high compression to generate the heat necessary to burn it. Spark plugs don't make the heat necessary to ignite diesel or oil. Gasoline is a lot more volatile than diesel, and that is a side effect of the energy density.

Also, those "octane" numbers you have for diesel are incorrect. That is the Cetane index of the diesel fuel. Cetane does not really have a direct correlation to Octane, but if anything they measure inversely. Higher Cetane fuel burns more readily, whereas higher octane fuel is more resistant to combustion.

[theholycow]

According to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_...octane_ratings
Diesel fuel RON 15-25
"Regular" gasoline RON 91-92 (AKI 87)
Ethanol RON 108.6 (AKI 99.15)

[trollbait]

I've heard of biodeiesel being used in a larger ratio as a replacement for oil in a two stroke engine.

I'm currently experimenting with it as an additive in a car engine. Since it's thicker than gasoline and doesn't ignite as readily, I'm keeping the amount of biodeisel below 1% in order to avoid it building up and causing problems. I have tried mixing a small amount with gas and 91% isopropanol, and it does mix.

If you have access to E85, why not try mixing up some E30 to E40. The connection between the energy content and fuel efficiency in gas and ethanol mixes is not linear. The drop in economy with E30 and 40 is less than what the btu content predicts. In a post 2000 car, fuel economy may be close to that of E10. So the cost per mile might work out favorably with a 30% to 40% blend.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by FIND

It will smoke like hell and get horrible mileage if it burns at all. Oil needs high compression to generate the heat necessary to burn it. Spark plugs don't make the heat necessary to ignite diesel or oil. Gasoline is a lot more volatile than diesel, and that is a side effect of the energy density.

Maybe but maybe not. Gasoline is a blend of many compounds, many of which are also in diesel. With a veggie oil E85 blend things get more complicated. The ethanol will have no problem igniting via spark. This would then make enough heat and compression to burn the oil (hopefully). Just like in gasoline the more volatile compounds cause the less volatile ones to burn.

Thanks for the octane correction. That was some very sloppy internet research on my part.

[madnessspirit]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerryrigger

Maybe but maybe not. Gasoline is a blend of many compounds, many of which are also in diesel. With a veggie oil E85 blend things get more complicated. The ethanol will have no problem igniting via spark. This would then make enough heat and compression to burn the oil (hopefully). Just like in gasoline the more volatile compounds cause the less volatile ones to burn.

Thanks for the octane correction. That was some very sloppy internet research on my part.

No, I was telling you that because I have seen what happens to cars that have it mixed in ratios close to what you were suggesting. I'll see sometime if I can dig up a video of someone who put a few gallons of diesel in their gas tank accidentally.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by FIND

No, I was telling you that because I have seen what happens to cars that have it mixed in ratios close to what you were suggesting. I'll see sometime if I can dig up a video of someone who put a few gallons of diesel in their gas tank accidentally.

Why didn't you say that in the first place rather than giving a explanation of why it may not work. Also you seem to be talking about diesel, not biodiesel, which act similar, but are not the same thing.

[madnessspirit]

I did tell you..... It will smoke like hell and get bad mileage. Then I tried to say why. The differences between biodiesel and diesel blended at those quantities shouldn't make an appreciable difference.

I mean, you can try it. I wouldn't ever suggest a person doesn't experiment, but what I would suggest is that you try it blended in smaller quantities first, say 5%-10%, and note the difference between blending biodiesel to regular unleaded and e-85.

[trollbait]

Question that just came to me, are the fuel system components biodiesel safe? I know it dissolves rubber, but was just figuring ethanol compatible materials would be fine. Now, I'm not so sure.