Another Way of Looking At It...

[MorningGaser]

We all bemoan those giant (even smaller) SUV drivers that suck up the gas, couldn't care less for preservation, the environment, and saving money. And even those that drive smaller cars who drive like they stole them....

Then we bemoan price hikes on gas...we all feel the burn, yea?

But what about looking at it like this:

There is a finite amount of "cheap" oil in the ground. Years before it truly runs out, the price will of course sky rocket, right? So maybe these gas sucking SUV drivers are doing us all a favor in the sense that these folks are helping us all by burning through the "cheap" oil fast. Doing this will of course make gas sky rocket as demand will quickly outpace supply, thereby compelling governments, and companies to come up with power solutions that are not tied to oil sooner rather then later. As gas sky rockets, behaviors will finally change, people will ditch their land barges, change their driving habits, and with the help of higher and higher gas sales taxes, this will all conspire to get us out of the oil economy.

This is all idle thinking, and highly speculative, I admit, and forgive me for thinking out loud so to speak, but if the world is going to require a solution that is not oil based, and not forcing us to be beholding to fanatical freedomless countries, then we need to do something sooner then later.

Could crisis be the mother of invention?

Let the soccor moms, the motorsports macho crowd, and other gas guzzlers have their fuel...burn baby burn...lets get it over with sooner rather then later, and lets get to hydrogen or other technology that will finally interdict our adiction to oil...lets get this overwith, and hope the environment will bounce back there after.

Ok, so I know this thinking is radical, if not irresponsible, and I can't say that I even agree with my feeble ramblings here, but sometimes you have to let the "crack adict" hit rock bottom before he starts to help himself, as sad is it may be to watch "someone" spiral under a bit.

It is sad that it may well take what I suggest here before people stop and think, and start to change their attitudes and behaviors with regard to oil usage.

Could conservation only prolong our adiction to oil? COuld it be like adding a filter to a cigarette to make it "safer", instead of just quiting?

Just another angle, and again, not saying I even agree with it, but these ideas kind of struck me as I road the bike into work this morning.

Perhaps I'm dead wrong...even if gas gets to $6 a gallon, the giant SUV drivers will still suck up the gas....it's sad.

[trebuchet03]

Take one step further back to get a little bit more in the picture.... Oil is not used solely for cars and transportation.... Imagine how much higher your medical bill is going to be when medical supplies skyrocket because crude supplies skyrocket -- I doubt they'll revert back to pre-plastic practice, but that's a scary thought.

Just think about all of the oil based products in your home (by chemical composition, not transportation).

Conservation will prolong the addiction... Giving us that extra time to move forward into the age AFTER oil instead of moving back to the age BEFORE oil.

-----
That is my biggest complaint about people that complain about emissions and such.... I usually get "So what? Do we just stop burning and revert to pre-oil days?" -- I always have to explain that no... we move on to the age after oil. It's like research advances are completely new to them o.0

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Take one step further back to get a little bit more in the picture.... Oil is not used solely for cars and transportation.... Imagine how much higher your medical bill is going to be when medical supplies skyrocket because crude supplies skyrocket -- I doubt they'll revert back to pre-plastic practice, but that's a scary thought.

Just think about all of the oil based products in your home (by chemical composition, not transportation).

Conservation will prolong the addiction... Giving us that extra time to move forward into the age AFTER oil instead of moving back to the age BEFORE oil.

-----
That is my biggest complaint about people that complain about emissions and such.... I usually get "So what? Do we just stop burning and revert to pre-oil days?" -- I always have to explain that no... we move on to the age after oil. It's like research advances are completely new to them o.0

Agree. Here's a list of things made from oil to start with.

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Take one step further back to get a little bit more in the picture.... Oil is not used solely for cars and transportation.... Imagine how much higher your medical bill is going to be when medical supplies skyrocket because crude supplies skyrocket -- I doubt they'll revert back to pre-plastic practice, but that's a scary thought.

Just think about all of the oil based products in your home (by chemical composition, not transportation).

Conservation will prolong the addiction... Giving us that extra time to move forward into the age AFTER oil instead of moving back to the age BEFORE oil.

-----
That is my biggest complaint about people that complain about emissions and such.... I usually get "So what? Do we just stop burning and revert to pre-oil days?" -- I always have to explain that no... we move on to the age after oil. It's like research advances are completely new to them o.0

I realize oil serves man more then just powering our cars. And I'm fine with using oil for medical and other uses, but for powering cars, lets get off oil sooner then later.

The point of my thread was that human nature is such that it may well come down to a crisis before governments & private enterprise finally stop showing mock ups of alternative fuel cars at car shows, and start actually selling them, with the required infrastructure in place to distribute whatever alternative fuel will be used. I know this is all easier said then done, but I feel the frustration as many others do too.

Perhaps the president needs to appoint an energy czar, give business tax breaks for R&D spending on alternative fuel cars, that sort of thing...nothing new here...but will it get done?

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by MorningGaser

I realize oil serves man more then just powering our cars. And I'm fine with using oil for medical and other uses, but for powering cars, lets get off oil sooner then later.

I completely agree.... But realistically (as you're saying with human nature) it's not viable to happen "fast enough." Transition tech. is in it's infancy and, unfortunately, the people that the auto mfrs. need to have buy them just aren't doing so. But we'll see with the newest wave of hybrid SUVs


They way you laid it down is very likely to happen... And likely, I'll bet someone out there (perhaps with an SUV) thinks that will happen is is fine with it -- without even thinking/realizing the ramifications in other industries.

[Sludgy]

Oil isn't necessary to power automobiles. Cars can be powered electrically, and some have been since the start of the twentieth century. The decision as to what energy source we use for transportation is dictated by economics and utility.

When gasoline finally does become too expensive (either through scarcity or taxation) electric power will become the dominant transporation energy.

Higher gas taxes are a good idea to spur electric vehicle development before the oil crunch hits.

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

Oil isn't necessary to power automobiles. Cars can be powered electrically, and some have been since the start of the twentieth century. The decision as to what energy source we use for transportation is dictated by economics and utility.

When gasoline finally does become too expensive (either through scarcity or taxation) electric power will become the dominant transporation energy.

Higher gas taxes are a good idea to spur electric vehicle development before the oil crunch hits.

Today, oil IS required to power cars...there is no meaningful infrastructure to distribute to cars with alternative fuels today...and how will the electricity required to power those cars be generated?

I fear the burning of fossil fuels will be used to charge batteries these cars will require, right? Oil, coal, so now we're back to oil addiction all over again...

Nuclear would be great, but too many hate/distrust Nuclear...

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by MorningGaser

Today, oil IS required to power cars.

This is demonstrably not true. Pure electric vehicles are already available right now from Meyers Motors, and Electric Motorsports among others.

http://www.myersmotors.com/

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/EGPR/sales.htm

These vehicles use rudimentary technology that limits their range, including lead acid batteries and DC motors. Lithium batteries and AC regenerative motors will give a new generation of vehicles adequate range within 5 years.

Increasing the gas tax would prod car companies into building better electric vehicles.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

This is demonstrably not true. Pure electric vehicles are already available right now from Meyers Motors...
http://www.myersmotors.com/

Hehe... The news report on that site said it "was especially useful after hurricane Wilma" -- just plug it to your outlet and it charges.... I can't remember which hurricane it was... But I do recall one of them knocking out our Natural Gas fueled power plant

Don't get me wrong -- those plants are much more efficient and generating power compared to an ICE... But it's still using the very same resource that is giving us hell Imagine what happens tomorrow if just half of the nation switched over to electric cars... We'd be having a power consumption crisis until the infrastructure is beefed up considerably :/ This is one reason why I think MorningGaser's scenario could be rather realistic

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

This is demonstrably not true. Pure electric vehicles are already available right now from Meyers Motors, and Electric Motorsports among others.

http://www.myersmotors.com/

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/EGPR/sales.htm

These vehicles use rudimentary technology that limits their range, including lead acid batteries and DC motors. Lithium batteries and AC regenerative motors will give a new generation of vehicles adequate range within 5 years.

Increasing the gas tax would prod car companies into building better electric vehicles.

Nope, this is not a good solution....the power plants that generate the electricty for charging those batteries burn fossil fuels...so you see, this solution is not complete....in order for this to work, to get us off fossil fuels, the electricity generated by the plants that power the electrical recipticals used to charge the batteries must not burn oil, and coal.

...so even if ALL cars today were electric, this will not be a complete solution unless the power plants use some other means to gen electricity.