Why aren't hybrids diesel rather than petrol?

[trollbait]

You can also slap a little turbo on it. User:Rjf/Willies Red Rocket - SeattleEVA

The only issue with the gen1 Insight is that they could suffer from Honda's poor battery management. It wouldn't keep me from considering one. I can use a multi-meter, and have replaced breakers on my home's 200amp panel. More importantly, getting ahold of a salvaged Prius pack in the event the Insight's gives up the ghost won't be difficult in the States. If you want to maintain the car as a hybrid, the cost and availability of replacement battery cells is something to consider.

[benlovesgoddess]

Speaking of fuel costs, any diesel drivers still using biodiesel out there?
It was available near York about 20 years ago, reclaimed chip fat i think!
It was 20% cheaper than pump diesel at the time.
It was only then i started doing brim to brim calculations, as i wanted to minimise trips to it. After months, i filled up at a regular pump and found that i could get 54 mpg on real diesel, compared to 42 mpg on bio, so never went back!
It closed down - are there any improved fuel, or lowered cost venues still going these days?

[itripper]

There are several places to get new, higher than factory AH battery packs for around $1800 here for Gen 1 Insights. I would like to get one since my batteries are dead but it does not make fiscal sense. I might get 10mpg better mileage but extra mileage would never pay back the cost of the battery over the useable life of a new battery (at most 10 years).


Gen 1 Insight has a sweet, tiny 1 liter VTEC engine. Without the battery pack you lose lean burn (which is what lets it get 120+ mpg @ 35-45 mph zone) and the engine will stay running at stops. The acceleration below 3000 rpms will be much slower (like driving an early VW beetle) and a little extra wear on the brakes as there is no regenerative breaking. Still the mpg will be good. Honda battery packs are rebuildable too, they are individual D cell type sticks that can be tested and replaced individually if you have the time. The mpg on my Insight is without hybrid battery operating.

[benlovesgoddess]

I'm suprised how cheap that battery pack is for 10 year life - i wish i had looked into a Gen 1 insight a year and a half ago, but i was fixated on getting a new car with the best published fuel economy figures.
I didnt realise our uk "figures" were made up ones, not real figures.
Sadly, i only came across Fuelly while complaining about my i20, not while deciding upon a car.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by itripper

There are several places to get new, higher than factory AH battery packs for around $1800 here for Gen 1 Insights. I would like to get one since my batteries are dead but it does not make fiscal sense. I might get 10mpg better mileage but extra mileage would never pay back the cost of the battery over the useable life of a new battery (at most 10 years).

The financial sense part is why, if you got the skills and time, I think a used Prius pack would be the way to go for a completely new battery.

Does the entire or majority of the Insight battery die? Could you get a full refurbished one from one or two salvaged packs? If so, that would be the most economical. Without a reflash, use of a charger may be in order to keep the replacement pack in the best condition. Or would wise use of a MIMA not require a plug?

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by benlovesgoddess

Speaking of fuel costs, any diesel drivers still using biodiesel out there?
It was available near York about 20 years ago, reclaimed chip fat i think!
It was 20% cheaper than pump diesel at the time.
It was only then i started doing brim to brim calculations, as i wanted to minimise trips to it. After months, i filled up at a regular pump and found that i could get 54 mpg on real diesel, compared to 42 mpg on bio, so never went back!
It closed down - are there any improved fuel, or lowered cost venues still going these days?

Were you using B100? It does have a slightly lower energy content than diesel.

I don't know about the other European makes, but the German ones are cheap. Because of that, you likely won't find anything higher than B5 now. Biodiesel is less volatile than diesel. So when fuel is injected through the engine to regenerate the DPF, more of it gets left behind in the cylinder. There it can work its way into the crankcase, and, again less volatile, dilute the oil.

For a tiny increase in manufacturing cost, a more sensible approach to regenerating the DPF can be done, whereby fuel is injected directly into the exhaust for the DPF. I think the American makes here do this since they allow up to B20 or B25. Then the more biodiesel, the less particulates produced, and less regens of the DPF. There may be technical reasons for not allowing higher, or it is CYA because it is straight forward to homebrew biodiesel. Which means the manufacturers don't want to be on the hook for a poor batch.

There is a renewable diesel made from the same oils as biodiesel. I think the company is in Sweden developed it. The short press release I've read makes me think they use a process similar to that used for making trans-fat goodness. It doesn't have the drawbacks of biodiesel, being closer to diesel in properties. There is a chain making and selling it in California.

Audi has some exciting stuff going on. They a small plant making methane out of water and CO2 with excess wind and solar energy, and another making a "blue crude" out of the same. That crude gets refined into diesel, they call it ediesel. Audi also has partnerships with a couple of biotech companies, and some took their first shipment of gasoline made from bio-engineered microbes.

[benlovesgoddess]

That sounds like decent fuel - no idea if "B" anything was in it. The place was full of blue used takeaway fat drums. I used to deliver pizzas for 10 years, it was deffo old cooking oil! Dunno how they refined it, what they added, but it cant have been filtered too well, as i ended up needing to replace the fuel tank in my car! On the plus side, it smelled nice, i used to think like peanuts....

[trollbait]

If your car had use on diesel before going to biodiesel, there could be issues. Biodiesel is great a keeping a fuel system clean. With the gunk build up from diesel, that will clean the gunk out, which could clog things.

On the other hand, if the station wasn't doing a great job of cleaning the biodiesel up, you can get glycerol in the fuel system.

[benlovesgoddess]

That car was the first one i sold as a runner, not as scrap - got £200 for it even with 200,000 miles, half an exhaust and a purple drivers door!
Well, its looking like a MK1 insight is the winner so far as being the best hypermiling car - unless there are some mitsubishi oulander PHEV full tank figures ahead of it yet?

[trollbait]

PHV tank ranges all depend on the EV range and access to charging. If those two conditions are just right, any PHV will beat the Insight on tank range by using grid power to augment it.

With the Insight getting all its energy from petrol, the tank range numbers won't be comparable to a PHV's.