Why aren't hybrids diesel rather than petrol?

[benlovesgoddess]

Automat? Screw this predictive nonsense! AUTOGAS!

[Draigflag]

Ben, just read about the new VW twin up hybrid coming soon. Sounds like our kind of car, fitted with a tiny 0.8 litre TDI engine and an electric motor capable of 30-35 miles too, they say it will do about 250 MPG. Fancy one?

[benlovesgoddess]

YES! Like the look of the Up! anyway, especially in 4 door. Saw an E Up! (ideal car for a Yorkshireman...) but with tiny range. This beauty would tempt me off my planned 10 years of i20 ownership, even replace a 1st gen Insight as my most desirable next car....

[benlovesgoddess]

Ha ha - if that car is the outcome of this thread (whether coincidentally or not) then I will count it as a triumphant success - I was expecting it to just be a forum for me to moan, well done VW!

[Draigflag]

Well don't get too excited just yet, it's apparently going to cost close to £20,000 and that's IF they produce it. No doubt VW are holding fire on a few future projects until all the emission fines have been paid!

[benlovesgoddess]

Haha! My i20 was just under £13k and works out £330 a month for 3 years. The VW would be £555. However, if it even managed 140 mpg, rather than claimed 250 (I ve learned my lesson believing published economy "figures") then that would save me £750 a year. As I m going for 10 year ownership rough Hyundai figure is £28,000, VW £27,750! However, the hybrid MUST have the potential to do better, with the (sort of) free electric power. If the 250 mpg claim is achievable (have the lying gits learned their lesson?) then Cost of 10 years ownership more like £22-23,000....
Pros would be epic Fuelly figures, and enjoying mammoth full tank results, eco kudos, cute car. Cons would be potential high battery costs, smaller than the i20 and probably worse ride on the country roads. Realistically, we will be looking next to replace our 8 year old 4x4 in 2-3 years. However, should the VW Up! Diesel electric hybrid appear, I will give it serious consideration , thanks for the tip off.

[Draigflag]

No probs, by the time you want a new car, there are going to be epic amounts of hybrids flooding the market, every manufacturer will have 2,3 even 4 hybrid models available possibly, it's just the way markets going now.

[gregsfc]

Like has been stated, especially in the U.S., cost is a big prohibitive factor. Diesels for the U.S. require at least a $4K increase to not lose any profit margin and even more for bigger engines just to meet emission rules and the other cost add ons that diesels require because they must be built more robust to handle the higher compression; plus the extra cost of either importing the engines from other countries where diesels are more popular or the higher unit margin required to build limited runs here in the U.S. where they are not popular; plus the add on costs for turbo chargers and direct injection units. If you then add to that the extra $4K to $5K for a second drive system via battery power and electric motor, it's not hard to understand why a diesel hybrid is not economically viable, especially in the U.S.

I've wanted a light-duty diesel pickup truck for years; only a regular cab, and at most, a extra cab, but it ain't happening. GM just released a 4 cylinder diesel engine for the compact trucks (Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon). They mandate a buyer to choose a crew cab and all the towing and safety features and a bunch of convenience features just to drive one with the Duramax diesel. What ended up happening was that I could drive a 4 cylinder diesel pickup truck, but it would be a bigger version than what I wanted and it would cost me at least $34K for a truck that has a starting price of $22K. Likewise, Chrysler's Ram 1500 offers a 3.0 Ecodiesel that starts at $38.5K in a truck that starts at around $26.5K.

I ended up buying a Ford F150 Reg cab, 2wd, short bed full-size truck with a 2.7 V6 Ecoboost gas engine that weighs only 4200 lbs; gets 23 mpg u.s.; with a 3.32 reg rear axle and it cost me $27K.

Unlike the old days, diesels are well thought of in the U.S. (until this VW scandle), but they are mostly unaffordable for most people, much like hybrids; but when you add the two, it would be like a double whammy.

[Draigflag]

There are more diesel hybrids coming to the market, but you're right, weight,cost and space are all factors preventing the development of diesel hybrids. You'll notice those that do exist are usually SUVs or estates (wagons) as the larger size allows more scope as where to stash things like electric motors and batteries ha!

Quite liking the Volvo S60 hybrid, it's a family wagon but with performance and economy too. 2.4 diesel gives lots of torque and a nice 0-60 sprint of 5.8 seconds, yet the hybrid system means you should still get 80 MPG. It's a real shame they charge such a huge premium for diesels in the US. There is of course a smaller premium here, but still usually about $1500 to $2000 for the equivalent diesel version, but as most people have been converted years ago, it's a premium alot of people decide is worth it. A few years back, it used to be the case that the extra fuel costs meant it was only worth buying a diesel if you did upwards of 20,000 miles per annum. But consumer groups forgot that the extra premium you pay on initial purchase, you get back anyway, depreciation is the same for any car regardless of fuel type (some would argue diesels depreciate slightly less anyway) but these days, you litterly start saving money the moment the engine starts. It still seems funny to me that some trucks and vans in the US have petrol engines though, I think at least 99.9% of every commercial van/truck here has diesel.

[Draigflag]

Just read a review on the new Citroen DS5 2.0 hdi and guess what? They averaged slightly more MPG'S in the standard diesel that in the diesel hybrid (48 MPG V's 45 MPG in the hybrid) They noted the extra weight of the hybrid system probably comprimsed the economy, and that fact that the hybrid was automatic too. Although the economy is pretty poor, the DS5 is quite a weighty old lump to chuck about, and the big 2.0 litre diesel is probably not the engine of choice for fuel efficiency.