Electric V's Hybrid

[Jcp385]

As someone who drives trucks, I am not a fan of the center seating. It kills what's already marginal visibility on the drivers' side. Not good.

Aside from some questions, I feel like the Tesla truck has some potential for really good use.

Gotta agree on the lack of lane discipline. It wasn't taught well in drivers' education; to the extent that I know anything about it, it's because my Father taught me about it, and of course hanging out with car nerds who do believe in lane discipline.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

Yea that started life as a Kei car in Japan, with the 660cc rear mounted turbo, which was sold in small numbers in the UK. The EV version is also available as a Peugeot and a Citroën, although its tiny real world range makes it a bit useless, and I'm not sure where they got the batteries from, but I've heard they can be problematic.

I believe the iMiEV uses Toshiba batteries.
In the early days, it was the cheapest plug in available here.
We are still waiting for the Outlander PHEV to arrive.

Originally Posted by JockoT

You have also to factor in the cost of the electricity you use (unless you can charge the vehicle from self generated solar energy).
I do 10,000 miles a year and spend £75/month (average ) on petrol. That would cost me £89/ month for lease of a 22kW battery. Add to that £26/month for electricity (figures for a 30kW Leaf from https://pod-point.com/landing-pages/...g-electric-car ) and I would be £40/month worse off.

You do need to factor in reduced maintenance costs. A BEV won't have any oils to change, and the brake pads will last longer with the regen braking. Then it won't hurt to budget for a battery replacement or repair with an older plug in.

But I do agree with you in regards to battery leases.

What affect will the lease have on insurance?

[Draigflag]

I was surprised Renault and Nissan use different battery manufacturers, Renault use LG whilst Nissan use AESC and NEC by the looks of things?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._manufacturers

[itripper]

I considered buying a used leaf, they have been selling for around $5000 US around here. My commute to work and back is about 50 miles though and that would not allow me enough of a margin to ensure I don't get stranded, I live in AZ which is not kind to batteries due to the heat.

Used not so old Prius cars are getting cheap now, I have seen a few 2013s for $8000 in excellent shape. I really enjoyed driving a rental car Prius, I love the fact its electric only at low speeds/parking lots if wanted. The idea of the plug in Prius to me sounds ideal. Electric for most in town commuting, yet capable of long distances when needed.

As far as hybrid batteries, I recently had to purchase a new NiMH pack for my Honda, it cost $2500 new and has slightly more capacity than the factory batteries. I enjoy the extra power the batteries add to my Insight. The Insight can drive as a stand alone 1.0 liter engine too, my batteries had been dead for a couple of years before I replaced the battery pack.

For me personally I am very impressed with hybrids, I love the power regeneration when braking or letting off the gas. Power is no problem either, hybrids are not slow and I recently made a 6 hour drive with several hours of it cruising at 95 mph (about 150kph).

I do love pure battery powered cars, but only as a second vehicle, as the limited range does not work well for me, I do a lot of driving on the weekends.

[Draigflag]

I loved my little insight too, but truth be told, with a dead battery and no other performance enhancers like a turbo, it was just too slow, frustratingly so. Some of the hills here I was down to 1St gear, it was quite ridiculous, very hard to maintain or build up any speed at all, felt like a vintage car in this respect. Couldn't justify a new pack for the little use it got, plus it was almost the same price as the car itself, and couldn't see the point owning a hybrid when it wasn't a hybrid if you get me. Great car in many respects, loved the design and concept, but so many compromises too.

[itripper]

The Honda with dead batteries was slow on takeoff, but only until I hit 3000 rpm, after that the VTEC takes over, and especially at 4000 rpm and above it has plenty of pull. The electric motor mostly assists at lower rpms. There is very little difference in the mpg between dead battery and now with a new one. If you do not disconnect the IMA charging system when you have a dead battery it will always be trying to charge it up and that will decrease your power and mpg. It takes a simple jumper to disconnect the IMA system. The car was capable of hitting over 100 mph without a working IMA battery, and cruised in 5th gear well at 85 mph.

[Draigflag]

Yea, but having to work the engine so hard to gain any performance kind of ruined the point of trying to get good economy. I had mine disconnected properly, you're right, the car was just as fuel efficient without the IMA, especially without the drag of regen. Kind of a shame all the r&d that went into the hybrid system only improved acceleration, the good fuel economy was down to the small engine, light body and amazing aerodynamics. I should imagine it's the same case for most hybrids, or at least those that don't have the ability to drive on electric power only.

[mohenry]

Wifey drives a Prius and she loves it. We bought it 3 years ago and so far we have no complaints.

[itripper]

Yes, I was wondering why Honda just didn't flat out use the 1 liter VTEC engine and tune it for more low rpm power, I had a 1 liter Geo Metro and it had enough power for me, I would think a properly tuned VTEC would have considerably more power.
Seems that nobody in USA cares about high mpg gas burners anymore.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

Yea, but having to work the engine so hard to gain any performance kind of ruined the point of trying to get good economy. I had mine disconnected properly, you're right, the car was just as fuel efficient without the IMA, especially without the drag of regen. Kind of a shame all the r&d that went into the hybrid system only improved acceleration, the good fuel economy was down to the small engine, light body and amazing aerodynamics. I should imagine it's the same case for most hybrids, or at least those that don't have the ability to drive on electric power only.

I've likely offended people at the Prius site for saying this, but hybrids are still ICE cars that get all their energy from gasoline. The majority of improvements the Prius has seen to fuel economy between generations have been from improvements to the engine. You don't see the big gains from a hybrid system when it is put into a vehicle without the efficient engine and aerodynamics.

The electric side helps with the ICE efficiency by allowing the engine to spend more time running in its efficient power band and to turn off when not needed. the only thing it does to improve efficiency that isn't involved with the ICE is regenerative braking.

Its main job through is to give the car performance that is acceptable to the majority of drivers. Without that, the car wouldn't sell at all. Without the hybrid system, the Prius is a Corolla hatchback with a less powerful engine.

Originally Posted by itripper

Yes, I was wondering why Honda just didn't flat out use the 1 liter VTEC engine and tune it for more low rpm power, I had a 1 liter Geo Metro and it had enough power for me, I would think a properly tuned VTEC would have considerably more power.
Seems that nobody in USA cares about high mpg gas burners anymore.

I'd say they care, but only as long as they don't have to give up the performance they are use to, or pay extra for the efficiency.

ICE technologies have improved to the point that non-hybrids can match hybrids on the highway. But most people drive under city conditions on their daily ride. Engine shut off and regen braking are key to getting good fuel economy under those conditions.