Coasting Problems

[rh77]

If you'd like to diagnose the problem a-la "CarTalk Puzzler" style, try to avoid reading below the solid-line)

It's been about 2 solid weeks since I've driven the Integra (1-week in the shop, and out of town about a week).

I head-out this morning to get my morning fuel (coffee ) and I take the same route I generally do when going to work, etc.

Using the same techniques as always, I engine-off coast down the larger hills and some light grades. But for some reason, it was just coasting to a near stop -- half the distance it used to.

After checking the tire pressures, all 4 were fine. It wasn't until I got back to my garage at home did I smell the problem.

(I was listening to CarTalk so if you'd like to make this a "Puzzler", be inspired to do so )



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Well, it turns out to be a sticky brake. I'd know that burnt smell anywhere. So, now what do I do? I assume that I have to identify which wheel is the culprit by either sniffing around or jacking-up the car (chocking the opposite wheels) and seeing which one doesn't turn in neutral. The setup is front disks and rear drums. I use the parking brake often, so the rear drums should have self-adjusted (should I do a hard stop in reverse to confirm adjustment?) I've changed brake pads in the past, but a sticky caliper or shoe is new to me...

RH77

EDIT: I stand corrected. The car has small, rear disc brakes. I found the source -- it was a hot and smelly rear driver's side disc. It's definitely dragging.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Try lubing them and pumping the brake pedal to see (wheel off) if they engage/disengage as they should. Aside from that, the only thing I'd do is replace 'em, not something to dick around with imo.

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by rh77

... I assume that I have to identify which wheel is the culprit by either sniffing around or jacking-up the car ...

When I bought my metro I noticed some dragging, when we got back to the lot I just put my fingers on the metal part of each wheel till I noticed one that was significantly warmer than the others. Watch out for the rotors though, I burned my fingertip on the one that was dragging when I went in for a closer look (even after waiting a long time).

[rh77]

Well, the E-brake mechanism moves freely, so it looks like the caliper is toast. I could immediately tell which one was faulty by the heat (luckily I waited a while, but you're right, skewbe, it's still hot -- even the wheel!)

Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq

Try lubing them and pumping the brake pedal to see (wheel off) if they engage/disengage as they should. Aside from that, the only thing I'd do is replace 'em, not something to dick around with imo.

They'll engage, but only release very slightly. It looks like it might be time for a project. We're expecting more snow, so I'll probably drive the other car mostly.

A couple of questions:

-If I find a new/reconditioned caliper, I assume it's a good idea to replace the pads as well -- should I replace the pads on the other rear wheel (or all 4?)

-What kind of time am I looking at if I do it myself?

Thanks guys -- more stuff going wrong

RH77

[Gary Palmer]

It may be that if you just go ahead and use the car that after you use it for a few days that this problem will self correct. It sounds like it just had some rust etc. that has gotten a little better grip than normal, from sitting for a couple of weeks.

If you do decide to replace the calipers, you should definitely do the pads as well. With disk brakes they seem to just sell brand new calipers, rather than even going through the motions to rebuild them.

In any case, if you do replace them, I would just put new calipers and pads in . It's easier and it dosen't really cost that much in the long run. The biggest issue is bleeding the brake system when your done. You can get a self bleading tool, or you can get someone to help you. In most cases I have ended up getting someone to help me because I can't seem to get all of the air out of the brake lines when I use a self bleader.

Worst case, you can make a bleeding tool that runs off of the vacume from the engine idling. I had to build one because I had one clutch cylinder I could not get all of the air out of, any other way.

All total, in terms of time, if you haven't done it before, it might take a 1/2 day or so. Basically you have to remove the wheels, pull off the calipers, remove the pads and then do the reverse. If your wheel rotors aren't warped, which is most likely, then you can just use a sander to rough up the surface glaze and then reverse the order and put them all back together.

If you need more detail on brake bleeding, or building a vacume bleeding tool, let me know and I will go into greater detail.

In either case, I wouldn't spend any time fiddling around with the old cyliders or pads, it's just not enough money savings to aggravate yourself with. Trust me, been their, done that!

[Silveredwings]

From Wikipedia:

Floating caliper (single piston) designs are subject to failure due to sticking which can occur due to dirt or corrosion if the vehicle is not operated regularly. This can cause the pad attached to the caliper to rub on the disc when the brake is released. This can reduce fuel effiency and cause excessive wear on the affected pad.

[GasSavers_TomO]

3rd gen tegs (read 94-01) have issues with the rear calipers seizing. Best to get rebuilt/new from a parts store with a lifetime warranty (worth the extra money now as it saves hassle later). They are easy enough to replace, just two 12MM bolts and one 14mm bolt for the line. The tricky part is getting the E-brake cable off of the actuator. the pin that holds the cable on is usually corroded.

The temporary fix is to manually disengage the E-brake mechanism on the caliper itself (that is what causes the caliper to stick in the first place)

Jack up the back of the vehicle at the rear tow hook and remove the rear wheels (following proper safety procedures). Take a large flat-head screwdriver and with the e-brake disengaged place the screwdriver between the caliper and the arm the e-brake cable is attached to and leverage the end of the arm as far back towards the back of the vehicle as you can. This will ensure that the e-brake is disengaged and will alleviate the dragging temporarily. Just make sure to not use the e-brake until you get the calipers replaced.

I've personally experienced this on all my Hondas with rear disc brakes. I've tried lubing and cleaning the E-brake arm since this is the culprit but it only results in temporary fixes, best to replace both rear calipers.

Hope that helps.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

If you're replacing the pads, I'd also have the rotors turned. Jeez, one little stuck caliper and you may end up redoing your entire front brake system.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by TomO

3rd gen tegs (read 94-01) have issues with the rear calipers seizing.
...
I've personally experienced this on all my Hondas with rear disc brakes. I've tried lubing and cleaning the E-brake arm since this is the culprit but it only results in temporary fixes, best to replace both rear calipers.
Hope that helps.

Definitely! Your experience is a certainly appreciated. All this time I thought it had rear drums (I never had the rear wheel off since I started driving it exclusively). When I get time this weekend, I'll see about getting both calipers and just drive the TSX in the meantime.

Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq

If you're replacing the pads, I'd also have the rotors turned. Jeez, one little stuck caliper and you may end up redoing your entire front brake system.

I haven't had any pulsing or hi/low spots noted on the rotors -- after driving more efficiently, I use the brakes a whole lot less. IIRC, the rotors were resurfaced and all pads replaced at 80K (now we're at around 130K). Since the system will be depressurized, I may as well replace the front pads too, so I don't have to take the time to bleed the system again when the front goes (they look worn enough). Hopefully those calipers will continue as expected

Thanks again!

RH77

[GasSavers_TomO]

Front calipers usually start to act funky around 200,000 miles. If you lube the sliders every time you change pads in the front you should be fine right on through 300,000 miles.