'Tuning' HHO

[dkjones96]

Could someone explain to me why the ECU needs 'fooled' after an HHO install?

The gas coming out of the HHO unit is stoich, as is the air and fuel that ends up in the cylinder. How is that no longer true when they are burned together?

I would also like links or data from someone that actually logged the ECU changing fuel trims after an HHO install and how much. It'll be another month or so at least before I have my data logging setup ready to go and more time beyond that to get a basic HHO setup installed in the car to check this. It'll have had a good couple of months to learn the fuel trims for gasoline so any changes to trims (i'll monitor it for a week before and a week during to make sure) will in fact be because of a change.

To me, it feels like the 'tuning' that gets done is the real cause of the mpg increases. Just looking for data that backs up a need for the tune.

[GasSavers_BEEF]

to reiterate your theory, there have been guys on this site that have just used an EFIE by itself to lean out the mixture a bit.

I worry about detonation with things like that. also, if you are doing it with HHO and can't actually measure the A/F ratio, how would you even know if you are pushing the envelope too much.

the best way to experiment with that is with a stand alone, completely programmable ECU (aftermarket of course) but then that defeats the purpose of all this which is to save money (for most of us anyway).

[dkjones96]

Well, modern EFI systems can be monitored for almost everything. I planned on monitoring the following if nobody else has done it:

OBD2
Ignition timing map changes
Fuel trim changes (short and long term)
Throttle position vs rpm vs distance vs speed

I can calculate later speed vs rpm for what gear the car is in and if the converter was locked or not.

I chose distance and not time because I'll be able to tell when I hit a stop light and other things like that if I use distance and I can also look at a map and see why throttle position may have spiked.

Getting the know-how to write a quick program to do this using hardware I didn't build is the hard part (stupid OBD2 streamer). I should be able to determine what is going on by this information.

[GasSavers_BEEF]

you can monitor your A/F ratio but you can't change it. also, if you modify it with an EFIE, you won't know what your actual numbers are and (unless you really dig deep into it) you won't know how much it is affecting the numbers either.

your ECU wants to stay around 15:1 (there abouts) and if you modify your O2 sensor (via EFIE) it will run the mixture lean but still say 15:1. you may not know how much you are changing the mixture. that is the dangerous part.

a stand alone system will allow you to change the A/F ratio without having to modify signals which means the numbers you are getting are the actual numbers and if you want to change them, you do.

[dkjones96]

I'm not sure how altitude will affect my ability to lean a mixture out. At WOT here it's already 20% leaner than at sea level.

Granted, the MAF sensor is reading less air but I still wonder.

[GasSavers_BEEF]

if I am not mistaken (and I may be). at WOT, you are throwing in a set amount of fuel for the RPMs and not having anyting to do with the O2 sensor. that being said, if the air is warmer or thinner then your A/F ratio will be leaner. this shouldn't change your closed loop setting because you have the feedback from the O2 sensor.

I don't have a MAF on my car so I am not sure how that will affect it.

*edit* wait I got it backwards, you should be richer? possibly have something to do with the MAF maybe, I don't know

[pvickonoff]

I have a 2000 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor that I am trying to install a HHO generator on. I have already tried the O2 blockers and my check engine light kept coming on due to low responding O2 sensor signals. I would like to use the HHO generator but I don't know where to go to from here. Being a Interceptor everything is basicly high performance and hyper sensitive. I'm thinking about installing an EFIE, but I want to see if someone else has any proven results before I purchase an EFIE.

[theholycow]

If you want, you might try building your EFIE instead of buying one. There are free EFIE plans around. Here's a few ideas how you might find them:

• Use the site search
• Look through Autospeed Magazine's DIY section - http://www.autospeed.com/S_10/cms/section.html
• Use Google to search this forum (allows you to search more powerfully than the built-in search): http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=01...67:6eyn0a2-udg

[saintmess@yahoo.com]

For accurate tuning you need log OBD-II drive time data, then, analyze that to give you meaningful average values. The most important of these data is you trip average O2 sensor value. Generally, if your value is greater than 0.45 v, then, you need to lean.

I use Carchip from Davis to log my OBD-II drive time data. I configured it to log RPM, O2, MAP, Load. I use OBD-II Easy Viewer software from greenfuelbooster.com to analyze the data . By balancing leaning AFR and HHO boosting I got my 2006 civic lx get 48MPG highway average.

Since my civic has really tight space, I use a compact HHO generator also from www.greenfuelbooster.com.