Need some help with my math, how much HHO needed?

[R.I.D.E.]

A gallon of gas contains 120,000 BTU of heat energy.

A cubic foot of pure hydrogen contains 325 BTU.

28 liters per cubic foot.

HHO is only 12.5% by weight hydrogen (the only part that is fuel).

1 liter of PURE (no oxygen) hydrogen contains 325/28 = 11.6 BTU of energy.

1 liter of HHO contains 11.6/8 = 1.45 BTU of potential heat energy.

You would need 120,000/1.45 = 82,759 liters of HHO to replace each gallon of gasoline, to supply the exact same amount of BTU of heat energy.


regards
gary

[TerryG]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

HHO is only 12.5% by weight hydrogen (the only part that is fuel).

regards
gary

I would like to know where that number came from, that doesn't make any sense. What is comprising the other 87.2% of the HHO production. If your getting two hydrogen atoms per one oxygen atom during electrolysis then I don't see how you could have more oxygen than hydrogen. So what else is making up the 87.2% of the browns gas.

Also are you specifically referring to a baking soda electrolyte, would not other electrolytes like KOH be different in their percentages?

Terry

[itjstagame]

Originally Posted by TerryG

I would like to know where that number came from, that doesn't make any sense. What is comprising the other 87.2% of the HHO production. If your getting two hydrogen atoms per one oxygen atom during electrolysis then I don't see how you could have more oxygen than hydrogen. So what else is making up the 87.2% of the browns gas.

Also are you specifically referring to a baking soda electrolyte, would not other electrolytes like KOH be different in their percentages?

Terry

Yeah, he meant H2 to O2 is a 1:8 ratio by weight which works out to 1/9th by weight for 11.1% or so.

I've only seen one guy try to use just H2 and he was running a 750cc motorcycle. It's odd because in his setup he puposefully seperated the O2 and put it out to atmosphere and combusted using H2 and air. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, to me you already have H2 and O2, so why use air? You could use a close system even if you actually produced enough. In my mind HHO at it's normal 1:8 ratio by weight is already designed to perfectly combust. So now all that's left is to cram however much you want into your engine. At 100% VE in a 1L that'd be 1L of displacement for every 2 revolutions (1 OTTO cycle), so if you had 100% VE and wanted to use your full displacement I would say 3200rpm = 1600 cycles = 1600L/m.

Of course if you seperate off and just use H2 and air then I have no idea. Clearly the only thing that 'burns' in air is O2 and I think that's 8% of air by volume. I don't know the % by weight of air, but if you had that you'd know the weight of H2 you'd need based on the 1:8 ratio and could go from there. You can't win though because whatever the H2 requirement would have to come from the 1600L/m HHO. The only advantage I can see is if you can keep it from preigniting then maybe you can run half the H2 and just get half the power and go to full power as you needed it.

Here's the best link I've found: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Starting on page 78 is Bob Boyce's electrolyzer which supposedly produces 1200% more than it should by drawing 'energy from the environment'. If you have any hope of creating 1600L/m you might as well use a 'free energy' device ;P. I gotta admit I'm not electrician but I don't see how his big field coil in aluminum can do that. The idea of AC pulsing makes good sense though because it keeps the gas from sticking to the plates.

[dtvg]

Originally Posted by itjstagame

Yeah, he meant H2 to O2 is a 1:8 ratio by weight which works out to 1/9th by weight for 11.1% or so.

I've only seen one guy try to use just H2 and he was running a 750cc motorcycle. It's odd because in his setup he puposefully seperated the O2 and put it out to atmosphere and combusted using H2 and air. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, to me you already have H2 and O2, so why use air? You could use a close system even if you actually produced enough. In my mind HHO at it's normal 1:8 ratio by weight is already designed to perfectly combust. So now all that's left is to cram however much you want into your engine. At 100% VE in a 1L that'd be 1L of displacement for every 2 revolutions (1 OTTO cycle), so if you had 100% VE and wanted to use your full displacement I would say 3200rpm = 1600 cycles = 1600L/m.

If your storing, why store only hydrogen and not oxyhydrogen
3 reasons ...
1 Weight. Why carry the extra weight around, 88.88% of oxyhydrogen is weight of oxygen.
2 Space. About 1/3 of the volume of oxyhydrogen is oxygen.
3 Safety. oxyhydrogen is more dangerous in that is doesn't need air to burn, where as hydrogen by itself needs oxygen from the air to burn.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

okay, lost of posts on this topic, and I'm going to ignore most of them and reply mostly to the start.

dtvg,
First of all I'd like to show you the math, but with a different approach.

from your gas log I think it is fare to say that on a good day on the highway you can get about 57 MPG. so lets round up and make the assumption that your car uses 1 gallon of gas to go 60 miles at 60mph therefor running for 60 min on one gal of gas.
gas had about 125,000 BTU per gal. so 125,000/1= 125,000 BTU per hour

Okay now the HHO side of things.
And the amount of HHO we get is directly related to the electrical energy put in to it, so lets take a look at the necessary electrical system

125,000 btu * .293= 36,635W
Okay lets say you have a really good HHO set up with only about 10% loss. so you would need 1.1 X 36,635 =~40,000W
okay so at 14 V 40,000/14= 2857A
okay so a DF8D car battery (really big one) holds 200 Amp Hours (when drained slowly) and has a weight of 150lbs.
So if drained in an hour lets say it will give 180 Ah (generous)
2857A/180Ah = 204 batteries at 150 lb each
that's 30,600 lbs of batteries in a 1700 lb car, just to go for one hour.

or you could just go with an electric swap...

HHO is a waist of electricity, because ICE's are huge energy holes that give very little back.

That said small amounts of HHO can improve FE by helping gasoline combustion. Small amounts of propane can do the same thing.

If you do what to know how much HHO that is by volume find out what 36,635W is equal to in HHO and dived by 60 go get a min.

[dtvg]

Originally Posted by TerryG

I would like to know where that number came from, that doesn't make any sense. What is comprising the other 87.2% of the HHO production. If your getting two hydrogen atoms per one oxygen atom during electrolysis then I don't see how you could have more oxygen than hydrogen. So what else is making up the 87.2% of the browns gas.

Also are you specifically referring to a baking soda electrolyte, would not other electrolytes like KOH be different in their percentages?

Terry

Atomic weight of oxygen is about 16 (8 neutrons 8 protons) while atomic weight of hydrogen is about 1 (1 proton). Each molecule of water has about 10 protons and 8 neutrons or 18 nuclei.
Based on this
2 Hydrogen protons /total 18 nuclei =11.11% by weight. Sorry i didn't calculate isotopes, electrons, or small weight differences of protons and neutrons into total weight.