LARGE LPM Production? Any Input?

[Jay2TheRescue]

To me it sounds like a car that could run on 100% self-produced on-demand HHO would violate the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, and be essentially a perpetual motion machine.

[dkjones96]

Just in case you didn't catch it, in the second scenario assumes you are running the HHO directly into the engine with no outside air whatsoever, so you're looking at about 200 CFM of HHO gas for your typical 4 banger wide open.

[hyknowledge]

Originally Posted by gavinmacrae

what cell(s) in particular can achieve this 15LPM result?

Here's a standard Tero Ranta design system that has an output of almost 19 LPm @ 110 amps.

[hyknowledge]

Originally Posted by Dalez0r

Looking at this from a energy in > energy out point of view...

If you're running on 100% HHO, you wont have any power left to move the car after you power the giant rack of alternators it'll take to produce that amount of energy worth of HHO. And your battery will go dead anyways.

Not really this site carries single alternators up to 1200 amps.More than enough to run everything.

http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/alt_inf.shtml

[Dalez0r]

No, you read me wrong. It's not that there wont be enough ELECTRICITY, no matter how many alternators you throw at it. The problem is ENERGY. 1200A of alternator takes about 50hp to run! And, you wont get 50HP worth of HHO out of that. And considering that for most smaller engines, you wont have 50hp of power at cruising RPMs, you'd have to rev your engine up in a lower gear to produce the 50hp to run the huge alternator and have hp left to push the car!

[hyknowledge]

Originally Posted by Dalez0r

No, you read me wrong. It's not that there wont be enough ELECTRICITY, no matter how many alternators you throw at it. The problem is ENERGY. 1200A of alternator takes about 50hp to run! And, you wont get 50HP worth of HHO out of that. And considering that for most smaller engines, you wont have 50hp of power at cruising RPMs, you'd have to rev your engine up in a lower gear to produce the 50hp to run the huge alternator and have hp left to push the car!

I understood you correctly,I was merely saying that it is possible and that it could be accomplished.Also at full load capacity it takes only 27.56 hp to run a 1200 amp alterator at max load.
You can mathematically determine the horsepower cost at any given load. (Remember, alternators respond to load. If there is no load present the alternator is basically freewheeling.)


Amps x Volts = Watts
Watts / 745.7 (one HP) = Electrical HP Produced by the Alternator
HP x 15% Efficiency Loss = HP Loss
HP + HP Loss = Total HP Used


Example:
1200A x 14.9V = 17880 Watts
17880 Watts / 745.7 = 23.97 HP
23.97 HP x 15% = 3.59 HP
23.97 + 3.59 = 27.56 HP Total

The most important question is what is the payback ? Which way does the horsepower benefit you ? How much horsepower are you currently losing because of low electrical system voltage ?

It is possible to run a motor on almost 100% hydroxy but the cost in doing so places your cost return into many years,that's the whole problem to over come.Even if you could achieve building and powering a system capable,are you prepared to totally rebuild the motor as well using stainless valves,complete stainless exhaust system along with stainless marine gasket sets to counter the rust caused from running that high amount of hydroxy?

Here again all I was saying it that it is possible and I do know it's not practical.

[theholycow]

That's the hard way to do the calculation. The easy way is to ask google.
Feed this into google:
(14.9 * 1200) watts to hp
http://www.google.com/search?q=(14.9...0)+watts+to+hp

[hyknowledge]

Originally Posted by theholycow

That's the hard way to do the calculation. The easy way is to ask google.
Feed this into google:
(14.9 * 1200) watts to hp
http://www.google.com/search?q=(14.9...0)+watts+to+hp

That is the easy way for sure,thanks THC

[Dalez0r]

I was accounting for the fact that most car alternators have poor efficiency, especially heavily loaded, but while 50hp might be a little high, it's still a very substantial % of total available engine power, and far more than the engine will produce if running on just HHO.

[edwardsav]

Can anyone tell me why some HHO stacks use a neutral plate between positive and negative and others don't. Also, can you use HHO to replace LPG in a water boiler.