Bring Your Hho Questions!!!

[tradosaurus]

Sounds like Lurch has been out to lunch for a few years.

[HHOExplorer]

Be careful with the acetone, make sure your it doesn't dissolve the plastic, rubber or other materials on your vehicle. Same precautions you should use if you're putting E85 in a vehicle it's not designed for.

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerryrigger

yesterday I read this and started looking up things about O2 sensors, and that led to another thing, and 4 hours later I forgot what started it.

Anyway, I've heard a lot about this (i also post on a few HHO forums).
From what i can tell people don't really know what they are doing, and come up with reasons that it work.
Some people say that the extra H2O in the exhaust is read as more O2, but I think this is bogous, a large amount of normal exhaust is H2O.
Further more I can't seem to find a one mention of O2 sensor tuning in relation to people who use water injection (used with superchargers to keep form knocking)
I think a big part of the efie thing is that it improves mileage, and if a crap cell for sale won't then they through in a cheap little box that does help.

It's really a snake oil biz, so it's really good to question everything.
I don't really see it as a reasonable way of improving mileage for me, but I do things because they are fun and interesting, not because they are reasonable.
If your looking for mileage savings, add acetone to your gas (2 to 3 oz per 10 gal) This will reduce surface tension so your injector will give a better spray, and you'll burn more of it. This is a much easier way of reducing this inefficiency.
Another way is to inject a small amount of propane into your intake, this will act just like HHO, with out the draw on your alternator.

[fotorebelion]

Hello i have been reading through your site and seems really great.. Read alread a few ehow and instructable guides and more or less they all describe the same process... I am interested in building on of my own out of parts i might be able to have around my house or out of the near by hard ware shop.. I have an old diesle 2.5l utility van old 80s pre computer days.. Very simple mechanics.. A person i once knew told she had purchase one hho for her vw trasporter bus so i figured it was worth a try on mine...
The problem is that most sites i find with diy guides are either just as a test sample or for normal cars... What are your experience with diesel van engines?* What dimensions should the plates* be? What litter capacity? Is it neccessary for the stainles steel plates? I have read about also using rods? Also how often would ihave to refill the generator? Lets say i want to make a 600km trip driving at 80km/h average speed in would need about 60l of diesel.. How much water consumption would there be?
Thanks if you can answer?

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Water consumption is very low (with any well designed cell), most systems only need to be topped off once a month, but checking every time you get fuel is a good idea when you start out. I don't know first hand, but have heard that diesels do quite well with hho. For highway driving,most people shoot for about 1 L of HHO for every L of engine displacement.
Go with a cell with stainless plates, unless you have nickle,platinum, or titanium plates hanging around. Read more about dry cells and why there are multiple plates.

[fotorebelion]

Thanks so you say that for a 2.5L engine i should have a 2.5/ or 3l hho unit?.. I was more reading about a wet cell where the plates are inside the water system

[HHOExplorer]

fotorebelion - It sounds like you have a perfect vehicle to try HHO on. See this website, I used this for much of my planning as it seemed to be a fairly solid reference. (keep in mind, every vehicle 'can' be different) http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/how-much-hho-should-i-use

If it was my project I would shoot for hitting 1.5 - 2 liters, I'm no expert when it comes to diesel, but from what I've heard I think they work better with a bit more HHO vs gasoline.

I think a wet cell is a great idea if you're looking to keep your project cost effective. Stainless steel or better is necessary because of the corrosive electrolyte you'll be using. I would suggest KOH, it works the best in my experience, I've heard if you use baking soda that you're pates will become dirty and its less potent so you'll need to use more.

A few other suggestions I have for you.

Make a bubblier with some type of relief valve. (mine was a hose barb with plastic sandwich bag stretched over, then small piece of hose over it to keep it sealed) A bubblier also acts as a filter to filter out the corrosive electrolyte so it doesn't enter the intake.. I'll explain.

So you have your hydrogen cell, wet cell/or dry cell, the gas comes out and some folks just pipe it directly into their intake and be done. With a bubblier it acts as a buffer sort of speak. Gas comes out of the cell, goes into the bottom of the bubblier which is filled with plain water (distilled) about 1/2 to 3/4 full and bubbles to the top then comes out a hose then goes into your intake to the engine.

So in the event that spark ignites the HHO gas the bubblier should hopefully contain and release the pressure. Worst case scenario is that the bubblier explodes and you have harmless water everywhere, verses your cell exploding and getting corrosive electrolyte all over your engine compartment. (By the way KOH burns, bad!)

With a wet cell I'll warn you about a couple other things, heat/thermal run away. I've heard that wet cells can get hot, so make sure you do your homework on the design. They can have what's called thermal run away and the cell gets hotter and draws more amps and produces more gas and steam and puts a strain on your cars electrical system and sometimes the cell can break from the heat. Use either a fuse to cut off the cell at a max amp draw of the fuse, so if it draws too much it doesn't do any damage. I have a pulse width modulator (DC motor controller) and I have an analog amp gauge to avoid those issues.

I don't have information about dimensions for building a wet cell, I went with a 21 plate dry cell that I purchased. I went with a larger cell than was needed to keep my heat to a minimum. My cell still gets hot at 110-130 Fahrenheit even at 10-12 amps, so keep that in mind.

Good luck!

[HHOExplorer]

fotorebelion - It sounds like you have a perfect vehicle to try HHO on. Search "how much hho should I use" and you should see one of the top hits is from a site that has "fuelsaver" in the title. -they didn't allow me to post the link- That website seems like a good reference, (I used it) but it's always a good idea to cross-reference with other sites and experiment to get your best results.

If it was my project I would shoot for hitting 1.5 - 2 liters, I'm no expert when it comes to diesel, but from what I've heard I think they work better with a bit more HHO vs gasoline. (I could be totally wrong here)

I think a wet cell is a great idea if you're looking to keep your project cost effective. Stainless steel or better is necessary because of the corrosive electrolyte you'll be using. I would suggest KOH, it works the best in my experience, I've heard if you use baking soda that you're pates will become dirty and its less potent so you'll need to use more.

A few other suggestions I have for you.

Make a bubblier with some type of relief valve. (mine was a hose barb with plastic sandwich bag stretched over, then small piece of hose over it to keep it sealed) A bubblier also acts as a filter to filter out the corrosive electrolyte so it doesn't enter the intake of the engine.. I'll explain more.

So you have your hydrogen cell, wet cell/or dry cell, the gas comes out and some folks just pipe it directly into their intake and be done. With a bubblier it acts as a buffer sort of speak. Gas comes out of the cell, goes into the bottom of the bubblier which is filled with plain water (distilled) about 1/2 to 3/4 full and bubbles to the top then comes out a hose then goes into your intake to the engine.

So in the event that spark ignites the HHO gas the bubblier should hopefully contain and release the pressure. Worst case scenario is that the bubblier explodes and you have harmless water everywhere, verses your cell exploding and getting corrosive electrolyte all over.(By the way KOH burns, bad!)

With a wet cell I'll warn you about a couple other things, heat/thermal run away. I've heard that wet cells can get hot, so make sure you do your homework on the design. They can have what's called thermal run away and the cell gets hotter and draws more amps and produces more gas and steam and puts a strain on your cars electrical system and sometimes the cell can break from the heat. Use either a fuse to cut off the cell at a max amp draw of the fuse, so if it draws too much it doesn't do any damage. I have a pulse width modulator (DC motor controller) and I have an analog amp gauge to avoid those issues.

I don't have information about dimensions for building a wet cell, I went with a 21 plate dry cell that I purchased. I went with a larger cell than was needed to keep my heat to a minimum. My cell still gets hot at 110-130 Fahrenheit even at 10-12 amps, so keep in mind that it's not a good idea to over work your cell.

Good luck!

[GasSavers_gashog]

not to be a bad person but with the expermenting have seen little change on the road but a little gain in town with HHO. haven't seen anything to make the chance of the damage to the engine and the backfiring THAT CAN HAPPEN TO make it a reasonable use. even changing the ratios (even adding a 2 speed rear end only works as an increase at certain speeds and pulling power needed). if you have any good info I would like to know of the increase.

[OliverGT]

I'm all for good healthy discussion about ways to improve fuel economy, but I find the discussions on HHO and HCS seem to keep going round in circles and never reach any valid conclusions on whether they work or not.

People have been talking about and building these devices for years, I just found a thread with some 240+ pages, yes pages, not posts, with no conclusive results.

And in all of the discussions no one seems to put up any comprehensive A-B-A test results.

If these devices actually worked then there would be plenty of data out there to support that fact.

I'm not trying to stifle debate or cause trouble, but if anyone out there has documented A-B-A testing showing either good or bad results please feel free to share.

For example, we all know that slowing down improves fuel economy, there are many graphs available to show how MPG changes with speed. Just look at my Miss Piggy 2 data, there are two fill ups that involved long motorway trips, those two tanks are 5-7 mpg worse than my normal values.

Oliver.

[Charon]

I don't think many of the experimenters really want to know whether HHO works. If they did, they would perform their experiments under controlled conditions, not on a vehicle on the road. Such testing might involve putting the vehicle on a chassis dynamometer with accurate fuel flow measuring equipment, running at some constant load, and switching the vehicle-supplied power to the HHO equipment on for a while, off for a while, and documenting the results. But of course, such testing would be "too expensive" for experimenters.