Where's the commuter cars?

[Telco]

Heh heh, wrote the post, went to lunch, then made a few edits and posted.

Yes, would be ideal to have everyone in the smallest, most fuel efficient car available, but you can't just take those choices away. And, I'd much rather not have to pay 5 bucks for a loaf of bread just because gas prices are 10 bucks a gallon due to some guy in a Hummer. Far better to let him pay a HUGE premium to drive something for image, than for me to pay through the nose just to get by.

If we make it so painful on the car maker (ie jacking up the CAFE standards in a way that they can't be perverted) AND allow the car maker more freedom in how he gets that fuel efficiency, either they will get the fuel economy up or develop a better way. Right now we are letting the oil company and auto maker dictate what we drive by the laws that are in effect, but changing them in the manner I described will force the automaker to either find a better way or go out of business, which they don't want to do.

In reality, we are paying an inflated price for motor fuel. The stuff is there for the taking, and it really doesn't cost that much to refine it. Just as in the mid 70s, fear, speculation and false shortages are causing the price to be as high as it is. Notice that any time the prices start to fall, a refinery "goes off line" and is very publicly announced "with no idea when it'll be back up." Nothing is said when said refinery goes back online 2 days later. There are no fuel subsidies, in fact almost 40 cents per gallon is tax, which has nothing to do with the cost of production. And I remember paying 69 cents a gallon just 20 years ago. 8 years ago it was less than a buck. Between the speculators and the oil companies, we are getting screwed over. Oh, did I mention the additional costs we all pay so Chicago can have its own fuel blend, LA can have its own blend, ect ect? If they changed the law so that only 3 blends were allowed, one for 87, one for 89 and one for 93 octane, and went with the most environmental formula possible, fuel prices across the nation would drop an average of 30 cents a gallon.

[thisisntjared]

Originally Posted by GeekGuyAndy

She asked what happens if we own a 2 seater and need to bring more people... the simple answer: don't they have a car?

so you are sterile?

[GeekGuyAndy]

"Just as in the mid 70s, fear, speculation and false shortages are causing the price to be as high as it is."

Did you forget that the US oil peaked in the 70s? We now have to import most of it.

I strongly think there will be no significant changes until prices go waaaaay high. Do you remember when they said "Once it get's over $2 a gallon, people will drive less"? Same thing happened was said at $3, and people still drive everywhere. Same thing will happen at 4 and 5 too. $10 might change how much we drive. Get above that and then maybe we'll see ome truely more efficient cars.

[Hockey4mnhs]

its sucks but it is true

[Bill in Houston]

People drove less in 2006 than in 2005. First time that it has ever happened.

[psyshack]

Higher gas prices aren't going to do it in the short term. And gas guzzler tax will just get politicians shot.

The higher gas prices are taking there toll on the auto companys. GM is having to scale back there truck production.

It took years to get to this point. Like it or not. It will take years to back up.

[Rick Rae]

Originally Posted by psyshack

... gas guzzler tax will just get politicians shot.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Rick

[Telco]

Yes, nothing is perfect, but if the politicians would show a little backbone and actually make laws to influence decisions, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Problem with people driving everywhere, many people really don't have time to just go driving aimlessly for no reason. People have to work, buy groceries, see the doctor, ect, there really isn't a whole lot of trimming to do, and there's no real public transportation systems available outside the really large cities. My own driving, for example, is 90 percent go to work and back with the occasional side trip on the way home to the grocery store. Where can I scale back my driving? I can't, unless the county puts in bicycle trails. I'm certainly not going to risk my life on the roads around my area trying to save fuel on a moped or bicycle.

Further, peak oil is not a known fact. They've been making peak oil claims since the 1900s, but then more is found or a way is found to get at oil they couldn't reach before. Peak oil is really a weak argument for cutting fuel usage ir explaining away oil prices. Air pollution is a far better argument for cutting fuel use, and is the only proven problem caused by petroleum use. Global warming hasn't really been proven conclusively, but as fuel usage does emit greenhouse gasses, it's better to err on the side of caution and reduce them even if it isn't completely proven. Greed is a far more accurate reason for high fuel prices. If this weren't the case, then gasoline in other nations wouldn't be going for 20 cents a gallon and oil companies wouldn't be seeing record BILLIONS in PROFIT (not how much they bring in, profit is when they take how much they bring in and subtract how much it cost them to make that money) every year.

And yes, I still don't like FWD and try to stay away from it where possible, up to and including driving a full size SUV when I needed one. It's completely possible to build a RWD that gets good mileage, it just costs a little more to do so. Back when they built full size cars that were RWD that's what I bought, didn't go to trucks and SUVs until the cars went FWD.

I realize my opinions here will fly in the face of the majority of the folks here, sorry. But consider, I am still here and still trying to cut my consumption for whatever reasons I may have. I just don't believe everything I see or hear, just because some guy with strong political views is spouting it off.

[Bill in Houston]

Originally Posted by Telco

Yes, nothing is perfect, but if the politicians would show a little backbone and actually make laws to influence decisions, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Imagine how it would be WITHOUT the CAFE requirements.

[Telco]

Originally Posted by Bill in Houston

Imagine how it would be WITHOUT the CAFE requirements.

No doubt, but we do still need to improve it. Not only do we need CAFE requirements to be further segmented to prevent abuses like the V10 halfton offset by the 2 liter PT Cruiser, but the gas guzzler taxes need to be raised to the point of pain.