Kia Ray 77mpg-200mpg?

[spotaneagle]

Originally Posted by cow

DBW gear selection (vs. a linkage that controls PRNDL):
- Advantages: ???
- Disadvantages: When you want to shift the transmission to neutral because your accelerator is stuck and your brakes aren't working, you may not be able to because the computer overrides your selection or is already malfunctioning and can't obey.

let me fill in this giant blank here
dbw gears, advantage = millisecond shifts,less power wasted between gears=better mpg, also longer lasting transmission as these systems consist of multiple clutches sometimes.

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by spotaneagle

let me fill in this giant blank here
dbw gears, advantage = millisecond shifts,less power wasted between gears=better mpg, also longer lasting transmission as these systems consist of multiple clutches sometimes.

or just get a real manual transmission that will last virtually forever

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

Originally Posted by theholycow

<snip>
DBW throttle:
- Advantages: Better traction and stability control systems, torque management for overpowered cars that can break components in 1st gear, reduced pumping losses in cars that are tuned to open the throttle more and use a higher gear.
- Disadvantages: Slow/unpredictable throttle response and the far worse rev hang make manual transmission driving a chore; you can't feel what the cruise control is doing; malfunctions cause out-of-control acceleration (a la Toyota).

Advantage -- easier to run a wire than to run a linkage from the pedal to the throttle body. Possibly a less costly design.
<snip>

DBW steering:
- Advantages: I can't imagine a single one.
- Disadvantages: It must have a force feedback system or it would be impossible to drive so the whole thing has got to be heavy and wasteful of energy; I can't imagine how awful it would be if it has lag; if it malfunctions a la Toyota then you can't even fight it the way you can fight Toyota's malfunctioning electric power assist (which reportedly doesn't help much).

I can see a couple advantages...you can get rid of the steering wheel, and replace with a joystick, tiller, leaning device or whatever you wish. Also eliminates the steering column, giving one less thing to cause an injury in an accident.

DBW gear selection (vs. a linkage that controls PRNDL):
- Advantages: ???
- Disadvantages: When you want to shift the transmission to neutral because your accelerator is stuck and your brakes aren't working, you may not be able to because the computer overrides your selection or is already malfunctioning and can't obey.

Advantage -- Allows implementation of a voice-operated system for transmission operation rather than relying on a stalk coming out of the floor or the steering column (or dashboard). Alternately, you could easily (no linkage) use pushbuttons for gear selection ala '50s Mopars and Edsels.

<snip>

Sure, they're not going to all malfunction at once unless the computer fails (which, let's face it, does happen)...but shouldn't those safety-vital systems have real manual overrides, as demonstrated in recent news? On a daily driving basis shouldn't drivers get to feel throttle, brakes, and steering?

All these systems could provide easier customization possibilities, especially for customizing cars for handicapped individuals. You could actually design a car that could be driven by a quadriplegic.

If nothing else, I would at least want a kill switch in the low-voltage line leading to the coil pack.

IMHO, I'd rather have mechanical connections to all the vital safety-oriented systems. Absent that, then at least one redundant computer system. And a mechanical parking brake, separate from any computer system.

EDIT...and maybe an anchor I can toss out the window?

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by spotaneagle

let me fill in this giant blank here
dbw gears, advantage = millisecond shifts,less power wasted between gears=better mpg, also longer lasting transmission as these systems consist of multiple clutches sometimes.

I was talking about electronic controls for selecting PRNDL, not dual-clutch/sequential automated manual vs. manual (or vs. auto even).

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by JoeBob

I can see a couple advantages...you can get rid of the steering wheel, and replace with a joystick, tiller, leaning device or whatever you wish.

How can those be advantages?

Also eliminates the steering column, giving one less thing to cause an injury in an accident.

That is a distinct advantage.

Advantage -- Allows implementation of a voice-operated system for transmission operation rather than relying on a stalk coming out of the floor or the steering column (or dashboard).

"NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL! STOP THE CAR! OH CRAP I GOTTA CALL 911! *crash*"

Eh, no thanks.

Alternately, you could easily (no linkage) use pushbuttons for gear selection ala '50s Mopars and Edsels.

I have briefly thought of those cars when considering the new non-standard systems. How did those operate? Did the pushbuttons operate a solenoid/servo that did the job that the driver would normally do with the lever?

Anyway, consistency is far more important than possible perceived advantages of monkeying around with the interface, as demonstrated in the Toyota unintended acceleration incidents.

All these systems could provide easier customization possibilities, especially for customizing cars for handicapped individuals. You could actually design a car that could be driven by a quadriplegic.

Quadriplegics should not drive. There, I said it, as politically incorrect as it is. Driving on public roads with other road users is necessarily a physical task. People with leg failure can use hand controls with existing interfaces well enough (and there are times when I'd like hand controls too!). I'm not sure if people with arm failure should be using their legs to do everything required for driving; legs don't articulate as well as arms and don't have as much room unless you radically redesign the basic layout of the car.

If nothing else, I would at least want a kill switch in the low-voltage line leading to the coil pack.

IMHO, I'd rather have mechanical connections to all the vital safety-oriented systems. Absent that, then at least one redundant computer system. And a mechanical parking brake, separate from any computer system.

EDIT...and maybe an anchor I can toss out the window?

100% agreed on those conclusions.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I have briefly thought of those cars when considering the new non-standard systems. How did those operate? Did the pushbuttons operate a solenoid/servo that did the job that the driver would normally do with the lever?

Exactly. The pushbuttons on the dash operated solenoids that switched gears. I've heard of instances where the solenoid failed, and someone had to crawl under the car to activate the transmission so it could be driven home.

[JanGeo]

I think on the Pontiac/Dodge Seirra wagon my Dad had when I was a kid the push buttons were on the upper left of the dash next to the door and it moved a cable linkage to the transmission to do the shifting. Of course there was the standard mechanical feel to the buttons as you pushed one in the other that was in popped out etc and the buttons eventually jammed a little.

[spotaneagle]

oh cow you are sorta right I guess, even non flappy panel you would still be saving power dumps in between gears? I think..